X4 delivers amazing gameplay yet again! Uninstalling this ♥♥♥♥.

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Coming at this from a purely game design perspective - Is it good game design to add hazardous regions to the game, and not give the player any que that it's something that should be avoided? The only que I've found so far is flying through the region in your own ship, and you'll get a warning. But if you don't do this, you won't know.

I just built a new station in the void, and it turns out that it's a hazardous region that kills my AI ships. And no, the AI ships make no effort to avoid the hazardous zones if they're set to 'mine for commander.'

I've just installed a mod that fixes it, but it's got me scratching my head thinking about what's going through the dev's brains when they do stuff like this.
Like it's a cool concept, but implemented poorly.

But then you've got the mountain of other game play issues and I'm genuinely puzzled by the development choices that have gone into this game.
I've bought up the ships getting stuck in stations before, but then you've got data leaks which is just a loud, repetitive sound that you can hear even if you're not in a ship - I'm 90% sure that anyone who got a game development qualification would be taught basic game design principles, one of which would be "don't put loud repetitive sounds in your game for no reason". I don't even care about the sounds, I ignore it, but it's the development choice behind it that has be mystified.

And the voice acting - just hire actual actors, it sounds like the devs stuck a microphone in front of their friends or family and recorded lines, and then put some effects on the audio.

I just don't know what this game even is. It's the only one of it's genre which is the only reason it has a playerbase. I just wish another studio would put out a similar game that wasn't an absolute mess.

[Geist]

Publicado originalmente por Bobucles:

The issue with Avarice is that the alert meant to keep ships out catches ships in the system or flying to it, but not those with critical orders or which later receive an order to go there

That sounds like a clear cut bug. The avarice alert is meant to keep ships away from danger. If ships aren't getting the news to stay away, then the alert isn't working.

The alert works. But if you give a ship a order to fly into the sector after the first alert triggered, (the one 15 minutes before the Tide) they will not get the "flee" order, that is applied to all ships by the alert and that ship will then fly into the dangerous zone and often die, because the 2. alert (approx 2 minutes before the deadly wave starts to make damage) often isn't enough to escape anymore.

[FuryoftheStars]

Publicado originalmente por Geist:

Publicado originalmente por Bobucles:

That sounds like a clear cut bug. The avarice alert is meant to keep ships away from danger. If ships aren't getting the news to stay away, then the alert isn't working.

The alert works. But if you give a ship a order to fly into the sector after the first alert triggered, (the one 15 minutes before the Tide) they will not get the "flee" order, that is applied to all ships by the alert and that ship will then fly into the dangerous zone and often die, because the 2. alert (approx 2 minutes before the deadly wave starts to make damage) often isn't enough to escape anymore.

I feel like for the hazardous zones they should have some kind of an indicator by the sector name. Then for Avarice, they can have this flash, change colors, or something when the 15 min warning hits.

[Geist]

Publicado originalmente por FuryoftheStars:

Publicado originalmente por Geist:

The alert works. But if you give a ship a order to fly into the sector after the first alert triggered, (the one 15 minutes before the Tide) they will not get the "flee" order, that is applied to all ships by the alert and that ship will then fly into the dangerous zone and often die, because the 2. alert (approx 2 minutes before the deadly wave starts to make damage) often isn't enough to escape anymore.

I feel like for the hazardous zones they should have some kind of an indicator by the sector name. Then for Avarice, they can have this flash, change colors, or something when the 15 min warning hits.

Yes that would help

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Eightball:

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

The comparison was to assuming that players have prior knowledge of the game before making decisions. Eightball stated that I should have known not the build in the Void in the first place, and I'm saying that it isn't reasonable to expect the player to have certain knowledge prior to building a station.

Bro.

There is an entire plotline revolved around unlocking those sectors. You clearly just switched your brain off during it. It takes all of 1 minute inside the sector to realise how hazardous it is, which you also clearly never did before building a station there.

I mean, if you build a station in a zone you had an entire plotline revolve around which you ignored, and then did not even visit or scout the sector prior to plonking a station down, that's on you man.

Remember the 7 P's. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

I hadn't started the quests yet. This is an open world game. Expect people to play their own way. Quests aren't always the ideal way to reveal gameplay to the player in an open world game.

[Gibbo]

All the plots teach you something. For instance the boarding tutorial is in the pirate plot and the Hatikvah plot teaches you the basics. You get nice rewards from these plots. You don't have to complete them in one go and they make the X universe more dynamic so well worth doing.

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Eightball:

As for complaining about a data breach sound, well why are you just idling there if you don't like it? You realise you can move, yeah? :D You have a whole universe you can idle in, lol. Better off doing it from a ship with SETA anyway.

Your solution is to avoid stations?

Actual question - you know that I'm talking about this in an objective way right? I'm not talking about the sounds annoying me individually, I'm talking about the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in a game generally.

Do you get what I mean by this? It's hard to explain.

Part of my original post is my personal subjective opinion, but I switch to objective critiques of the game at points, but you think that my objective critiques are still my personal subjective opinion. I get the impression that you read my comments quickly and not thoroughly, and look for things that you can attack or change context.

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Veeshan:

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

There were no ques, expecting the player to assume knowledge isn't just bad game design - it's autistic.

Crikey. That's a real human claim. Apparently.

No, honey, some games expect exactly that, and have since before either of us were born. It's part of the learning aspect of some games.

Games do not in any sense HAVE to telegraph upcoming things; that's called hand holding and is a fundamental aspect of arcade, casual style games. Note huge portions of the gaming world are explicitly NOT that. The other half (okay, 10-25%) of games aren't "designed poorly." That's you confusing your preference for objective quality.

PS - The sign was a cue that I should get in the queue.

I'm trying to unpack what you mean here, my critique isn't that the game is too difficult, it's that the game is a general mess. I agree that modern games 'handhold' the player too much, and I've always preferred games with high learning curves. But there's a difference between 'challenging' and 'frustrating'.

Frustration comes from bad experiences in the game where the player had no chance to avoid the experience. Key points of information were never presented to the player, and so the only way to learn the game is by learning from disaster.

A skill issue is where the player had a chance to avoid the experience, but wasn't able to due to lack of ability. Players with a low attention span who ignore information - who then complain that the game is too difficult - should be ridiculed. However that is not what is happening in this case.

[Gibbo]

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Publicado originalmente por Eightball:

As for complaining about a data breach sound, well why are you just idling there if you don't like it? You realise you can move, yeah? :D You have a whole universe you can idle in, lol. Better off doing it from a ship with SETA anyway.

Your solution is to avoid stations?

Actual question - you know that I'm talking about this in an objective way right? I'm not talking about the sounds annoying me individually, I'm talking about the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in a game generally.

Do you get what I mean by this? It's hard to explain.

Part of my original post is my personal subjective opinion, but I switch to objective critiques of the game at points, but you think that my objective critiques are still my personal subjective opinion. I get the impression that you read my comments quickly and not thoroughly, and look for things that you can attack or change context.

What you can do is when you approach to dock and hear the cackle of a signal leak is abort docking, fly to another docking area, request to dock and that shouldn't annoy you as much. The station always gives you the nearest dock.

I'm guessing you've got decent headphones or speakers? Yeah the signal leak is very loud in surround sound lmao. I did laugh when I first read your post as I've been there. If you want total peace and quite then get in a S ship, dock on a cobra then order that cobra to dock on a destroyer. You'll not hear any nonsense if you do that. :)

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Persony Person:

My problem is that I cannot stand dishonesty and disingenuousness. I obviously seem to react to it way more proportionately than the average individual, because from my perspective, they're trying to insult everyone's intelligence rather than just my own. If I was the only recipient, I'd just let them rant into the void because it wouldn't affect or potentially mislead anyone else.

Why do you talk as if you've been personally attacked?

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Gibbo:

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Your solution is to avoid stations?

Actual question - you know that I'm talking about this in an objective way right? I'm not talking about the sounds annoying me individually, I'm talking about the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in a game generally.

Do you get what I mean by this? It's hard to explain.

Part of my original post is my personal subjective opinion, but I switch to objective critiques of the game at points, but you think that my objective critiques are still my personal subjective opinion. I get the impression that you read my comments quickly and not thoroughly, and look for things that you can attack or change context.

What you can do is when you approach to dock and hear the cackle of a signal leak is abort docking, fly to another docking area, request to dock and that shouldn't annoy you as much. The station always gives you the nearest dock.

I'm guessing you've got decent headphones or speakers? Yeah the signal leak is very loud in surround sound lmao. I did laugh when I first read your post as I've been there. If you want total peace and quite then get in a S ship, dock on a cobra then order that cobra to dock on a destroyer. You'll not hear any nonsense if you do that. :)

Yeah so you're doing the thing too.

I'm critiquing the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in games generally.

Let me put it like this - pretend like you would win a million dollars if you could get a random person to play X4 - and actually like the game.

They say "why is my ship stuck in a station?"
Or they say "what's with the voice acting?"
Or they complain about the loud repetitive sound.

Trying to argue that they are the ones with the problem isn't going to be very effective right?

You say "oh just undock and redock at a different part of the station where you can't hear the sound as much."
Their response is "well why the hell should I have to do that what a dumb game."
So I'm not complaining about the sound because I personally find it annoying, I'm saying that it's objectively bad to put it in a game.

[det2048]

If you do the missions you go through the process of detecting each hazardous region and mapping them. You find they are easily noticed by seeing glowing green things. Anyways the game holds your hand in this and if you skip the missions then you miss out on the knowledge. There are really no surprises here.
The Void, Sanctuary of Darkness, and most Xenon inhabited systems

[Gibbo]

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Publicado originalmente por Gibbo:

What you can do is when you approach to dock and hear the cackle of a signal leak is abort docking, fly to another docking area, request to dock and that shouldn't annoy you as much. The station always gives you the nearest dock.

I'm guessing you've got decent headphones or speakers? Yeah the signal leak is very loud in surround sound lmao. I did laugh when I first read your post as I've been there. If you want total peace and quite then get in a S ship, dock on a cobra then order that cobra to dock on a destroyer. You'll not hear any nonsense if you do that. :)

Yeah so you're doing the thing too.

I'm critiquing the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in games generally.

Let me put it like this - pretend like you would win a million dollars if you could get a random person to play X4 - and actually like the game.

They say "why is my ship stuck in a station?"
Or the say "what's with the voice acting?"
Or the complain about the loud repetitive sound.

Trying to argue that they are the ones with the problem isn't going to be very effective right?

You say "oh just undock and redock at a different part of the station where you can't hear the sound as much."
Their response is "well why the hell should I have to do that what a dumb game."
So I'm not complaining about the sound because I personally find it annoying, I'm saying that it's objectively bad to put it in a game.

I didn't say undock. I said abort (shift and D) and fly a few metres to the otherside of the dock and request to dock (shift and D again) and voila.

You know your attitude really sucks. If I didn't know other people read these posts and might need the same help as you do I'd totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ignore you.

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Persony Person:

Publicado originalmente por Eightball:

Imagine this guys reaction when he gets to sanctuary of darkness if he reacts like this about the void xD

I can just imagine his next thread in reaction to the Tides. "wtf guys!, I just lost my entire fleet to some big orange wave that I totally wasn't warned about 100 times! This iz such bad game design, y the devs no fix? Imma uninstall game, lotsa issues with game lik I said last thread that wus shut down unjustly, hazard zones OP, ships stuck, game too loud, devs dumb... waaaaahhh!".

He's starting to sound like a Split.

Do you get off on making people mad at you on the internet?
You use a mix of moral indignation and condescension in the way you talk, I bet that the majority of replies you get are very reactionary. But I see that you reply to other posts in the same way, so it's not just me. This is just a thing that you do.

[Doom]

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Yeah so you're doing the thing too.

I'm critiquing the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in games generally.

There are no signal leaks on stations you own.

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Let me put it like this - pretend like you would win a million dollars if you could get a random person to play X4 - and actually like the game.

They say "why is my ship stuck in a station?"
Or the say "what's with the voice acting?"
Or the complain about the loud repetitive sound.

Trying to argue that they are the ones with the problem isn't going to be very effective right?

Let's assume that this random person won't be the type to say "There aren't enough squirrels so I hate it".

Rather than trying to argue, the correct course of action would be to go to custom start, assemble cool ship, show how to fly it, lead it to xenon sector and hand over the controls.

Because that's the meat of the game.

Arguments do not work in those matters.

[Tiananmen Square-Dance]

Publicado originalmente por Gibbo:

Publicado originalmente por Tiananmen Square-Dance:

Yeah so you're doing the thing too.

I'm critiquing the idea of putting loud repetitive sounds in games generally.

Let me put it like this - pretend like you would win a million dollars if you could get a random person to play X4 - and actually like the game.

They say "why is my ship stuck in a station?"
Or the say "what's with the voice acting?"
Or the complain about the loud repetitive sound.

Trying to argue that they are the ones with the problem isn't going to be very effective right?

You say "oh just undock and redock at a different part of the station where you can't hear the sound as much."
Their response is "well why the hell should I have to do that what a dumb game."
So I'm not complaining about the sound because I personally find it annoying, I'm saying that it's objectively bad to put it in a game.

I didn't say undock. I said abort (shift and D) and fly a few metres to the otherside of the dock and request to dock (shift and D again) and voila.

You know your attitude really sucks. If I didn't know other people read these posts and might need the same help as you do I'd totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ignore you.

That's disappointing that you didn't get my comment. I tried to be polite, but you still reacted.
You're responding to me as if I said "I find the sounds annoying", but that's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that putting the sounds in the game is a bad choice. Do you see the difference?

Publicado originalmente por Gibbo:

You know your attitude really sucks. If I didn't know other people read these posts and might need the same help as you do I'd totally ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ignore you.

You should go back and read my comments, you'll see that I never asked for help.

You should read comments properly.
You reacted badly because I didn't give you the response that you wanted, but that's because you're not understanding that I'm saying.