7.5B Issues.

[Bozz 💀]

So i've tested the new boosting no longer draining shields and I'm very worried about this.

Previously boosting made life a lot easier for the player but you were limited by your shields and while it was still a very powerfull tool only the player could use effectively it was not completelly OP since draining your shields could have bad outcomes in some situations.

Now boosting makes you completelly untouchable by the AI ships, it doesn't drain you shields and while you boost it's impossible for the AI to hit you since turret precision has not been improved.

I mean you can literally boost through 2 xenon defense platforms without them touching you one single time.... even with destroyer with how the flight mechanique has been improved.

this change makes combat completelly trivial for the player, I doubt egosoft will improve this since the Beta seems to come at it's end, but I'm very disappointed on how this has been handled...

[conrado.lacerda]

Who would have thought that changing a basic game mechanic would screw the balance.

And by involving the players in a "democratic decision", the devs have put themselves into corner in case this change doesn't work.

[Doom]

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

I mean you can literally boost through 2 xenon defense platforms without them touching you one single time.... even with destroyer with how the flight mechanique has been improved.

You could do exact same thing with travel mode. That was the way to complete one of the "defanging" Timelines missions without getting hit even once. What's more you could do that with an asgard.

The difference here is that boost gauge regenerates slowly and drains. While travel mode is always available and infinite.

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

this change makes combat completelly trivial for the player,

There are changes to flight model and as a result combat now requires more attention. Combat was never specifically difficult because AI is not advanced. But this change hasn't made it easier.

Note that one of the common arguments of opponents was "it'll make it combat harder, because now any enemy can just boost away, and it is bad for the new players".

[Bozz 💀]

Originally posted by Doom:

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

I mean you can literally boost through 2 xenon defense platforms without them touching you one single time.... even with destroyer with how the flight mechanique has been improved.

You could do exact same thing with travel mode. That was the way to complete one of the "defanging" Timelines missions without getting hit even once. What's more you could do that with an asgard.

The difference here is that boost gauge regenerates slowly and drains. While travel mode is always available and infinite.

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

this change makes combat completelly trivial for the player,

There are changes to flight model and as a result combat now requires more attention. Combat always hasn't been difficult because AI is not advanced. But his hasn't reduced difficulty.

I have no idea how long you played the game but what you say makes no sense.

Travel drive is not instant, boosting is easier to use than waiting for travel drive to activate and you can't use travel drive when you getting hit, so you won't be using travel drive to get out of combat, you will use boosting.
Same when you are into combat, you won't be using travel drive specially in a destroyer who get's hit all the time by fighters....

Before it would drain your shield and you would need to wait outside of combat until it recharges.

[blackphoenixx]

Combat was already trivial before if you knew how to abuse turning flight assist off. Or use a smaller ship with a strafe speed mod and just strafe.

The only thing the boost change does is make slower ships more viable in combat now instead of having fast ships be the uncontested best choice.

[Urm the Mad]

I'm all for it. Losing shields to boost was annoying.

[¥aeko]

Originally posted by Urm the Mad:

I'm all for it. Losing shields to boost was annoying.

^^this, and it was complained about since forever.

I mean you can literally boost through 2 xenon defense platforms without them touching you one single time....

Thats fine, since it goes both ways - the AI can do the same with your stations.

Also... I literally did this with destroyers pre-patch, it was never an issue to get "through" a xenon defense station, just dont fly in a straight line.

this change makes combat completelly trivial for the player

Since everyone goes by the same rules: the advantages that apply to you, also apply to your enemies.

So, now, a ship that boosted away from you, turns around, isnt without shields anymore -> making combat harder

Its fine, sometimes its harder now, sometimes a bit easier.

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Combat now is much more dynamic, fun, engaging than previously.

I never used boost previously, since it was a huge selfown...

[flywlyx]

Originally posted by Doom:

Note that one of the common arguments of opponents was "it'll make it combat harder, because now any enemy can just boost away, and it is bad for the new players".

AI pilots don’t know how to properly use the boost drive, and they probably never will. This change, along with the drift adjustment, has significantly lowered the game's overall difficulty. However, it might be more welcoming for new players now, so I’m not entirely sure it is bad or good.

[¥aeko]

can we just wait until egosoft fixes the AI they are very clearly working on currently, which they stated for 7.5 and 8.0?

And I know for fact that Destroyers use the boost, because I have seen a Ray boost around an I recently, it just needs AI improvements in general.

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It makes a loooot of sense to make the flight adjustments first, then adjust the AI to the new situation, not the other way around^^

[Doom]

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

I have no idea how long you played the game but what you say makes

Speed of activation of travel drive depends on your engines. It is nearly instant on small ships and terran combat engines. Yes, if something lands a hit on you, there will be a few second cooldown, but just spin your ship with mouse and WSAD and you'll be able to live long enough to launch travel drive. You can also boost into travel drive.

You can activate travel drive in any ship from large distance, achieve desired speed, disable flight assist, and now you'll be flying at speed of several kilometers per second and you'll be able to shoot in any direction. That allows you to perform fly-by shooting in any ship, even in asgard.

The enemy can't do a thing to you when you do that and AI is absolutely incapable of defending against this. You can dismantle all defenses on xenon stations this way without ever getting hit.

Likewise, you can fly any ship with travel drive through any xenon sector without any risk, if you do not brake while passing through gates. You can basically kamikaze your way to Yaki station straight out of flight school, passing xenon ships, and they will not be able to do you anything to you. Because they can't hit fast moving target. The only thing that theoretically can stop you are Khaak, but they're lethargic and rare.

Things worked this way. since at least version 6, but probably been a thing since Terran DLC time.

There wasn't ever much of a challenge and to bring it the game needs an AI upgrade. And not Boost limiter. Linking boost and shields was one of the worst ideas in the history of space sims, and never added anything to the gameplay. It existed in X4 because it got inherited from Rebirth. Rebirth tried many things, some of which were bad ideas. This is one of the bad ideas.

[FxFighter]

This is still a big improvement overall even if it's not perfect.

Will need some adjustments to tracking speeds of turrets to match up with the new capabilities.

[Doom]

Originally posted by FxFighter:

This is still a big improvement overall even if it's not perfect.

Will need some adjustments to tracking speeds of turrets to match up with the new capabilities.

They kinda need to add variation to ship behavior. Given they invested into flight model improvement, maybe they'll pull someone into AI improvement as well. There are a lot of things that could be done, like fighter wings behaving as a whole, splitting up, etc. And all of this needs to work in-sector, where the player is. Current behavior is very predictable and can be defeated with simple WSAD circling in many cases.

[RoadAquila]

I like the new boosting, as draining your shields was something that had no real explanation except the fact that this way the game was more daunting. Now the fights are actually more dynamic because your foes boost either without inexplicably loosing shields. (or maybe I didn't stumble past that explanation in these few months I've been playing X4)

I used the hit and run tactic in the past to get by nasty situations, but now they can get to your position a lot faster after you've depleted your boost. Also the destroyers behavior has greatly changed, for the better I would say. In the past if you wanted to face several K with a Behemont E for example, while they're invading HC I it was enough to mod a bit the behemont e and afterwards while on battlegrounds just snipe those K with your main guns, one after another.

Truth is those K destroyers didn't do much as they almost always preferred to conserve their shields rather than boosting near your position and "teach you some manners" . Now is a total different story, as in this situation they come after you pretty quick.

[Sola Di Ryuvia]

Originally posted by ¥aeko:

can we just wait until egosoft fixes the AI they are very clearly working on currently, which they stated for 7.5 and 8.0?

And I know for fact that Destroyers use the boost, because I have seen a Ray boost around an I recently, it just needs AI improvements in general.

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It makes a loooot of sense to make the flight adjustments first, then adjust the AI to the new situation, not the other way around^^

How long have they been trying to improve the AI now? I've yet to see it be fixed by them yet a fully modded SWI its completely fixed by the integrated mods.

[¥aeko]

I mean, at least they started working on it - the question rather is: will they actually fix things, or just "fix some, break some", as is common for egosoft to do.

[Pathogenic]

I think they should keep the boost pool, but adjust the recharge times. For instance, as long as shields are <100%, the boost recharge rate could be drastically reduced. Using boost would not drain shields, but you wouldn't get boost back as quickly during combat.