X4 combat is extremely underrated by its own players

[ParabolaWaVe]

The conventional "wisdom" says that X4 combat can't rival other space sims, that its strengths are basically in its simulated factions and big fleets, that's it. As a new player, I respectfully differ from this consensus. I'm very surprised on how good dogfighting really is between small ships, specially compared to its direct competition which I'm also getting to know at the moment.

Not long after starting the game, I travelled with my starting ship and two MK1 lasers to Silent Witness XII. There, among all the floating debris from destroyed ships and stations, I found not only Kha'ak ships... but Xenon scouts. Feeling confident, I engaged them, but no matter what I did or the approach I took, I was quickly obliterated.

Deciding not to give up, I worked a little money, and upgraded my ship, shields and manoeuvrability. Then I returned for the rematch.

Each one of the N and M fighters from the Xenon forces were, still, good pilots. I exchanged heavy fire, face to face, with my new foe until we passed each other. I turned my ship around to face him. My idea was to quickly deplete my opponent shields with continuous laser fire, before he had a chance to recover. But then... he began evasive maneuvers, and spiraled his ship all around the screen, complicating all of my shots. Suddenly, he used boosters to get away from my laser range. I watched with angst how my target managed to move further and further away from my lasers. He was about to recover.

Realizing that I needed to be quick, shorten the distance between us, and not allow him breathing room, I used the boosters myself for just a second or two, taking care of not depleting too much my own shields which I was going to need. As I approached, and kept an eye on my speed indicators and distance, I opened fire, over, and over, and over again. He was weakening all right, but then he began encircling my ship very fast. He was trying to move to my tail.

Turning around to face him while still firing my weapon, I realized that we were spinning way too fast and my shots weren't even landing on the mouse cursor. Instead I had to correct my shots, and use the dot from the aiming computer to aim instead. My shots were once again landing on his hull.

When the enemy finally blew up, and the cargo crates were spinning in the open space, I felt relieved, but also very satisfied. This is the level of combat you have with the starting ships... with the wery weaker ships, no less. I had to be watching all the time, not only my aim, but also my speed indicator, and distance from my target. During all this time I felt like I was fighting for my life against the Xenon.

Is combat in X4 bad? Or even "not as good" as in other space sims?... you decide.

[Pathogenic]

I like combat in X4, and don't really understand those who say it is bad.

[TheAceOfSpodes]

I don't think anyone dislikes the combat itself, but the combat AI is pretty rough.

[ArcticISAF]

I like the combat as well. I like that even in the larger ships you can go through the debate of ‘fight or flight’, as you’re in a much more powerful ship, but your capabilities for running if you’re in trouble is much more limited. Sometimes it’s your own hubris coming into play. Jump into a xenon sector, take out the first few ships that come in. No problem. Then reinforcements come in… and more and more as the Xenon scales their response to you. Then you have 50 ships buzzing around you, plinking away at you, and you notice your shields aren’t keeping up. Can’t go into travel drive while under attack, so you try and limp back to a gate. Oh looks like your engines are being shot at too now. Better hope it all holds as you crawl forward…

It all relates to your pre-planning and preparation too in the end. Zooming around in Xenon territory beforehand, dumping adv. satellites help survey incoming threats and when to get out - if you keep an eye on the map. What kind of weapons you have on your ship - anti fighter, anti capital, a mix or go for all-rounders (pulse). Take the time to put some mods (in-game modifications) on your ship, could boost your ability to fight handily, even for something like speed or turn rate. It’s fun.

[Gwizzz]

Originally posted by ArcticISAF:

I like the combat as well. I like that even in the larger ships you can go through the debate of ‘fight or flight’, as you’re in a much more powerful ship, but your capabilities for running if you’re in trouble is much more limited. Sometimes it’s your own hubris coming into play. Jump into a xenon sector, take out the first few ships that come in. No problem. Then reinforcements come in… and more and more as the Xenon scales their response to you. Then you have 50 ships buzzing around you, plinking away at you, and you notice your shields aren’t keeping up. Can’t go into travel drive while under attack, so you try and limp back to a gate. Oh looks like your engines are being shot at too now. Better hope it all holds as you crawl forward…

It all relates to your pre-planning and preparation too in the end. Zooming around in Xenon territory beforehand, dumping adv. satellites help survey incoming threats and when to get out - if you keep an eye on the map. What kind of weapons you have on your ship - anti fighter, anti capital, a mix or go for all-rounders (pulse). Take the time to put some mods (in-game modifications) on your ship, could boost your ability to fight handily, even for something like speed or turn rate. It’s fun.

If you get into a situation where you are getting swarmed by Xenon fighters, you need to start dropping laser towers as you head back to the gate. The towers will act as decoys, drawing fighters off you, and can help to thin the fighter swarm so you can escape. I don't usually drop mines as they have such as small chance to be triggered by fighters.

Xenon Ps are harder to solo in fighters; I usually take them on in a Corvette.

[ParabolaWaVe]

Originally posted by Gwizzz:

If you get into a situation where you are getting swarmed by Xenon fighters, you need to start dropping laser towers as you head back to the gate.

I started experimenting with towers myself, not long after my duel with the Xenon scout of this story. Love them. Its one of those features in X4 which reward creativity, and different tactical approaches.

[Axeface]

Few people complain about S and M combat, the vast majority of complaints are about capital combat.

[ParabolaWaVe]

Originally posted by Axeface:

Few people complain about S and M combat, the vast majority of complaints are about capital combat.

Actually I've read many opinions on Reddit, Steam, Metacritic, Youtube and other places, about combat in general being bad in X4... at least when comparing to the competition. Not just larger scale, but combat between small ships too.

Its not like all people are saying combat in X4 is bad, but you don't read anything positive about it either. In fact, most of the stuff you read about the game, all video games actually, is players complaining about something. So I wanted to write something positive for once.

[ParabolaWaVe]

Just in case, I'm not wearing rose tinted glasses. I can be very critical too... I wrote a scathing review of Elden Ring which is probably the more negative review on Steam about the game. In other words I really mean the above compliment on X4, because of course not everything in the game is perfect.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by ParabolaWaVe:

Originally posted by Axeface:

Few people complain about S and M combat, the vast majority of complaints are about capital combat.

Actually I've read many opinions on Reddit, Steam, Metacritic, Youtube and other places, about combat in general being bad in X4... at least when comparing to the competition. Not just larger scale, but combat between small ships too.

Its not like all people are saying combat in X4 is bad, but you don't read anything positive about it either. In fact, most of the stuff you read about the game, all video games actually, is players complaining about something. So I wanted to write something positive for once.

The main problems with the AI combat are to do with Large ships, particularly destroyers.

Wanting to say something positive is fair enough, there are positives to the game but the AI isn't one of them, and I see no overall positive outcome from from trying to play down the problems of the game: There are already enough *fanboys* doing that.

If Egosoft were more proactive at fixing the problems then everyone would have something more positive to say.

[Cellar_Cat]

It seems good until you get good at it. You'll quickly find the AI are predictable and very limited in how they can manoeuvre, that they make no use at all of the more complex things you can pull off with the game's flight mechanics, and that they *are not even subject to the same physics as you*, taking shortcuts with things like momentum.

[poljik2]

jfc this is just the thread I was looking for. Preach this ♥♥♥♥. X4 may be the BEST fully simulated space sim on the market.

[poljik2]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

Originally posted by ParabolaWaVe:

Actually I've read many opinions on Reddit, Steam, Metacritic, Youtube and other places, about combat in general being bad in X4... at least when comparing to the competition. Not just larger scale, but combat between small ships too.

Its not like all people are saying combat in X4 is bad, but you don't read anything positive about it either. In fact, most of the stuff you read about the game, all video games actually, is players complaining about something. So I wanted to write something positive for once.

The main problems with the AI combat are to do with Large ships, particularly destroyers.

Wanting to say something positive is fair enough, there are positives to the game but the AI isn't one of them, and I see no overall positive outcome from from trying to play down the problems of the game: There are already enough *fanboys* doing that.

If Egosoft were more proactive at fixing the problems then everyone would have something more positive to say.

almost 30 years later and the problems are still being fixed :/

[poljik2]

Originally posted by Cellar_Cat:

It seems good until you get good at it. You'll quickly find the AI are predictable and very limited in how they can manoeuvre, that they make no use at all of the more complex things you can pull off with the game's flight mechanics, and that they *are not even subject to the same physics as you*, taking shortcuts with things like momentum.

I find it forgivable, but I could see where it might break immersion if you can't ignore it.

[ParabolaWaVe]

I'm not convinced that other space games actually make AI enemies any better. I'm playing more than one at this time, so I can compare 1 vs 1 dogfights. And we have to consider that the other games don't reach the same range of possibilities, and things going on in the universe... even if the space map is much larger.

[Gibbo]

I've said a few times now one of the best things in this game is flying in with dozens of other fighters and having a good old ding dong. It gets even better with mods.

I noticed last night this game had about 5000 players? Not too shabby for a Monday night. Most I've seen I think? Very good for an X game lol. No offensive, but not everyone gets this game.