7.5 Update to Claytronics and Hull Parts

[itsOutride]

Is there an updated calculator to account for the 7.5 update to the claytronics and hull parts production? http://x4-game.com/#/station-calculator isn't updated and I can't find any that are.

Also, any thoughts on the new requirements for these productions? I imagine it'll have a big impact on the game's economy and I can't decide if I'm happy with it or not.

[Dunkler Messias]

The resources needed to produce claytronics and hull parts hasn't been changed. It's rather the costs to build the station modules which are now different than before.

[itsOutride]

That's good to know. Any thoughts on the changes to the station module cost though?

[Ram]

He is correct, it is the construction cost only.

Originally posted by itsOutride:

That's good to know. Any thoughts on the changes to the station module cost though?

The 7.5 update changed the build costs for hullparts and claytronic modules to prevent a death spiral caused by these modules requiring their own materials to build.

[Doom]

Originally posted by itsOutride:

Also, any thoughts on the new requirements for these productions? I imagine it'll have a big impact on the game's economy and I can't decide if I'm happy with it or not.

The change strongly encourages you to go full terran or rely on recyclers. That's what I did in my last save. I have terran production and scrap processors. You certainly can grow big like before, but if previously once you have hull/clay, you're ready to self-build, now you need to babysit 4 resources instead of just 2.

I think they should've kept the old recipe available, perhaps as part of closed loop.

[blackphoenixx]

It's mostly a non-issue in new games, but in established games you might run into shortages since the factories cost a lot of plasma conductors and PC production modules don't produce much.

The same issue makes it slightly annoying to set up your own - you'll need a lot of plasma conductor modules. They're not particularly expensive or resource hungry, just time consuming to build so it'll slow down your expansion quite a bit.

Originally posted by Doom:

I think they should've kept the old recipe available, perhaps as part of closed loop.

I'm pretty sure making the transition from closed loop to full universal eco harder was at least part of the intention behind the change.

And it still works, just takes longer. But plasma conductors and advanced composites aren't exactly all that high up on the production chain.

[aY227]

Originally posted by itsOutride:

Any thoughts on the changes to the station module cost though?

Changes close to nothing for a player.
There is not much of efficiency in this game for a player, contrary to "AI" you can build unlimited number to modules.

It makes things easier on Ore, shifting a bit to fluids.
For self replicating HullParts/Claytronics factory - that produces every step - resources types STAY SAME
For just Hull Parts you add Helium.
(Helium for Superf. Coolants that are needed for Plasma Conductors - but in claytronics all stays same because you need Superfluid Coolants anyways for Quantum Tubes.
And additional Advanced composites are build from same resources as Hull Parts)

But - because efficiency is a myth - every sane player will go for salvage/closed loop or salvage/terran :)
Unless you want a commonwealth shipyard.

Sidenote: But if you will go for that in a commonwealth way, it covers requirements for Weapons Components, Missile Components and Shield Components - all nice to sell.

[Azunai]

They didn't think this through. The plasma conductors are way to rare to use them in such huge numbers. A hull parts module uses 1200 or so. That's about 6-7 hours worth of production of a plasma conductor module.

[aY227]

Originally posted by Azunai:

They didn't think this through. The plasma conductors are way to rare to use them in such huge numbers. A hull parts module uses 1200 or so. That's about 6-7 hours worth of production of a plasma conductor module.

But how is that a problem?
In my new save 48h in - JUST Argons have 12 production modules... rest varies from 10 to 20

[Gibbo]

I've had no problems getting plasma conductors. Remember when you're searching trade on the map and you haven't got an asset with trade extension in that sector then it will show you nothing. You have to send something there with a trading extension and then you'll see them. Or get +20 rep and buy the trade subscription from them. There's a reason why that costs about 10 million. It lets your station managers and ships know where all that faction's factories are and more importantly the prices. Even if you haven't discovered them.

I'm not 100%, but I think I got mine from the Teladi? They like to stock their trade stations with all sorts of goodies. So you can buy 1000s at a time.

[Azunai]

10 or 12 modules isn't much. A small hull parts forge still consumes the entire output of that faction of several hours. In one if my previous games i had a nice big hull parts forge that had something like 50 hull parts modules i think (plus the graphene, refined metals etc to feed them). It could easily provide the required hullparts on its own after the first modules were online. The claytronics weren't a big problem either since i also had my own production nearby.

Now i'd have to buy up several days of plasma conductor production of the whole universe to build that station and/or the claytronics factory.

[blackphoenixx]

Or you could just build a dozen or two plasma conductor modules. Takes some time, but they're not particularly expensive or resource-hungry so it's a speedbump at best.

[aY227]

Originally posted by Azunai:

In one if my previous games i had a nice big hull parts forge that had something like 50 hull parts modules i think (plus the graphene, refined metals etc to feed them). It could easily provide the required hullparts on its own after the first modules were online.


Now i'd have to buy up several days of plasma conductor production of the whole universe to build that station and/or the claytronics factory.

Oh no... you can't have 50 HP prod modules at start? Pity.
Also I really don't get this approach... since when factions are to support player - not vice versa?

Artificial problems - adapt...

[Azunai]

The point is thst they didn't think it through. Not that you can't adapt.

A plasma conductor factory spits out ~180 per hour. The consumers for this ware (weapons, shields, field coils) use similar small quantities. 60 per hour or so.

A hull parts module uses 1200.

It wouldn't even be an issue if they went all out and made plasma conductors a building material for all high tech modules. But they made that half assed change to require absurd amounts for hulls and claytronics without adjusting anything else.

Poor choice.

[aY227]

How do you know they didn't adjust anything?
What was average amount of those modules before patch?

Why for faction is it important to be able to spam Hull Parts modules?

EDIT: Ok, I actually found old save on bug report forums - it's 24h in and factions have only like 4-8 plasma conductors modules...
Looks like they did think it through a bit...

Feel free to check more saves to compare.