EGOSOFT HAS DUMBEST FLEET AI IN HISTORY PT.2

[Anarchy31173]

K so my last discussion got shut down ( PT.1 ) since it was a little negative, i mean its not like we exposed EGOSOFT'S dark little secret, everyone known's just how bad the AI is in X4. SO instead of trash talking it into the ground lets flip this around and be positive an post suggestions on how we think EGOSOFT can improve there AI and fleet management without mods. since mods usually cause more problems and instability then they fix.

Clipping through solid objects - stations and asteroids
I don't have any suggestions for a fix on this one, but for me personally anything that immersion breaking is a huge red flag and every reason to stop playing. its not fun

Fleet control Ai - current level of micro management needed to play the game.
the current commands and behaviours are overly complex in some area's and then completely missing in others, this needs a re-build to reduce the pause by pause micro management of 100's of individual ships. Its not fun.

Combat menu - currently the FPS drop so low in the universe menu, even on a good rig its clunky and awful to use, I think this needs a dedicated combat menu with nothing else running through it eg things like trade and none combat units, also not fun to use.

Game balance - several complaints of balance issue still haunt X4F, stop releasing DLC and go back and work on the base game.

Actual fleet perimeters - on cap ships and subordinates for formations and limits like maximum distance for subordinates before they return to the base ship.

Fixed forward facing batteries - on cap ship, got to go ! ( NOT NEGOTIABLE ! ). this also cause's a lot of the bad behaviours which conflict commands, they cant shoot if they don,t move and they cant stay in formation if they aim at anything not in front of them. this restrict's using almost every known tactic. they are not manoeuvrable like fighters, these needs a turret type system.

Separate or configurable power supply - for shields and engines. I'd like to see either the current system with something like a reserve for boosting away in those Oh S#$T moments, or a separate configurable power system.

A new tutorial - to cover everything in game to attract new players and lower the google search simulator effect ( learning curve ) that not having adequate information on your own game can cause. watching streamers for farmed results and not being able to reproduce the results and then get told it's they way i play or Git Gud, again not fun.

Jump Drive - bring it back, this would reduce the amount of Fleets needs to protect all the assets in different sectors thus lowering the need for multiple Fleets thus lowering the memory needed to stop X4F from crashing from way to much going on. 1 single fast response Fleet to do the work of many Fleets. this would be fun

@¥aeko
Weapon/Turret friend or foe safety system, to stop our own ships from shooting each other down in Fleet to Fleet combat. well in any combat really, this would also be awesome around stations to. getting aggro from friendly stations also not fun.

@DOOM
* My fleets still can't maintain formations.
* Tried to sic a Katana at a single Xenon M (high spec + mk2 pulse), pilot nearly died. Took over, blasted it to pieces in seconds.
* Destroyers keep trying to give K's a hug.
* Currently watching L miners ramming each other while docking stations in-sector.
* Pilots routinely phase through walls while landing on Terran docks.
So it still needs a ton of improvements.

Currently there are a lot more helpful suggestions in this thread i will post them when i find them, Dont forget to tag me @Anarchy31173 and try and keep them brief.

So that's just a few things off the top of my and the rest of the communities head i think will help EGOSOFT with there well known game issues, We all have a hell of a lot more to suggest, I just have to find them all.

please share your idea's and remember to be positive

Announcement by egosoft this year 2024 on the release of Timelines.
Over the past few years, the proportion of our players who enjoy "4X" games, and who have discovered us through that genre, has increased significantly. As a result, several key points on our list of improvements for versions 7.50 and 8.00 are designed to enhance the ability to initiate and control large battles, with a focus on the AI to support that (which is, by the way, something that can also be conveniently developed and tested in some of the more advanced X4: Timelines missions). It’s still too early to go into detail, but rest assured that we will be continuing to work on X4, and that the journey doesn’t end with version 7.00!

I'd also like to share one of my posts from earlier to show I do understand just how much work we are all asking for Its a LOT.

personally, I think the real issue is egosoft promised something they cant deliver, from a hardware standpoint of view, what this engine/Ai needs, almost no current PC could run, the levels of memory, GPU and CPU would be INSANE ! for the level of detail to the intelligence of the AI, and egosoft already proved it by using OOS and IS combat, they literally had to change how much data flows through the massive universe they have tried to create to stop the game from crashing due to simply just way to much going on at once. in short i think its the Vulcan engine they used that is really holding them back and or how thy are using it, take away the seamless transition from station to ship and ship to ship, and unfortunately throw in a few load screens and they'd might actually have a chance at pulling this off.... in short i don't think it can be done, they are WAY to deep and waited WAY to late to make any real difference.

I hope I'm wrong, I would like to have a bit more fun for the money I payed so far.

But maybe this will be a lesson for the highly anticipated X5

FYI i run
CPU 12th gen i7 12770
RAM 32 Gb
GPU 12 GB RTX 3060
and a 5120x1440 curve screen with a 4K UHD as a utility screen
so a mid to high end rig and my rig could barely run this now, more so in the universe map only getting 7 FPS , Fleet combat was clunky and S##T !

[flywlyx]

Gibbo lähetti viestin:

Dude do you just believe anything anyone writes on here? There's a lot of posts on Egosoft forums concerning map fps. Their post probably got deleted because they were ranting and rude.

Nah, the beta forum has different rules. If they ask you something and you feel it is not needed/no point to provide, say goodbye to your post.

[Gibbo]

Honestly I think most of the optimisation will come when the game is finished. Despite what we think on here, the last 2 DLCs did quite well and I think the road map is free diplomacy update no doubt with more fixes and a paid mini dlc and next year it just says TBD so I guess they're deciding on what to do next if anything? Maybe one more major DLC before they call it a day? Who knows?

[¥aeko]

Gibbo lähetti viestin:

Dude do you just believe anything anyone writes on here?

I was literally questioning this with what I wrote, since this is a widely known issue.

That aside, this behaviour is something that sounds very "egosoft forum"-like, yes.

Maybe one more major DLC before they call it a day? Who knows?

There is a 2 million grant/subsidy for 2026, so... either its going to be a huuuuuuuuuuuge dlc, or just the next game (as the description of the grant says.)

[flywlyx]

Gibbo lähetti viestin:

when the game is finished.

I've never seen that happen in Egosoft's history. X3AP and XR still have plenty of awkward bugs that require mods to fix.

[flywlyx]

¥aeko lähetti viestin:

There is a 2 million grant/subsidy for 2026, so... either its going to be a huuuuuuuuuuuge dlc, or just the next game (as the description of the grant says.)

I root for next game, simply due to previously mentioned observations.
And maybe, everything will turn out fine then.

Next game as X5 or Timeline 2?

[¥aeko]

flywlyx lähetti viestin:

Next game as X5 or Timeline 2?

pleas no, just X5 please, no timelines 2.

[flywlyx]

¥aeko lähetti viestin:

pleas no, just X5 please, no timelines 2.

Bernd keeps insisting that they’re not done with X4, which makes me think X5 isn’t coming anytime soon. My bet is on a Mega DLC—similar to X3 TC—that requires a fresh start and includes all current DLCs. If you already own them, you’d get a discount, maybe 50% off or something.

[¥aeko]

Bernd keeps insisting that they’re not done with X4, which makes me think X5 isn’t coming anytime soon.

Of course he does this, beause they are still doing stuff with the game - but he still has a X5-savegame-folder on his PC xD

He also has to say this, because anything else might have a negative impact on sales right now.

I think: both are true at the same time^^

==========
Anyway, time to clap some xenon cheeks.

[wolf]

Anarchy31173 lähetti viestin:

Duke Flapjack lähetti viestin:

Ok, dude, you're going about this all wrong. I honestly don't disagree (apart from the insulting title; I've seen much worse AI from space games) but you are talking to the wrong people. Egosoft has their own forum and they don't tend to pay a whole lot of attention to this one other than moderating it. If you want traction (or potentially attract a mod maker) then go there.

have you seen there forum lately, its a mess, type in something to search to get help and you get 60K plus results that don't explain anything, so last resort, i'm hoping someone in the right place takes a little notice here is all, but thanks for your important input im sure someone will value it.

Don't be fooled. You did the right thing. Sure, the company. would like you to go to their forums. HM doesn't take much to understand why full control here we can see what the problems are. and those problems need to be addressed. I like the game, and I'm sure you do too, Power to the people. Keep up the good work. Have fun later. man.

[flywlyx]

¥aeko lähetti viestin:

Of course he does this, beause they are still doing stuff with the game - but he still has a X5-savegame-folder on his PC xD

He also has to say this, because anything else might have a negative impact on sales right now.

Yeah, they're definitely using their manpower to cook up something in the background, but if it's X5, that probably means another three years of a broken game. So, I'm hoping for a mega DLC instead.

[SirProsik]

He claimed the X5 folder was for the game engine brought into the game in 7.0 I if I remember right. I can not check here cause the forum pinned thread is way out of date :(

[¥aeko]

We will see in 2026, I already wishlisted a clown mask, just in case.

[Sel Und Irae]

flywlyx lähetti viestin:

¥aeko lähetti viestin:

Of course he does this, beause they are still doing stuff with the game - but he still has a X5-savegame-folder on his PC xD

He also has to say this, because anything else might have a negative impact on sales right now.

Yeah, they're definitely using their manpower to cook up something in the background, but if it's X5, that probably means another three years of a broken game. So, I'm hoping for a mega DLC instead.

I think it's too early for X5 tbh, A.I needs to improve more.

(I don't mean traditonal A.I i mean Self Learning A.I that fully interacts with user)

Imagine X4 but every NPC had a goal, Wasn't fully aligned to their faction (100% loyalty) can get stranded, set traps, send out SoS beacons for both, Make their own factions, Stations, Armies, Undercut your trade routes, disrupt your trade routes, Put mines in the path of common routes, Lure Kha'ak into a route, Lure Xenon / Agitate Xenon so they poke into sectors.

ETC

If X5 ever comes i'd really love to see True A.I Implementation, IDC about the weird af phobia people have with them we already have examples of A.I being used in games by the Skyrim mods that make fully a.i companions.

[flywlyx]

Sel Und Irae lähetti viestin:

I think it's too early for X5 tbh, A.I needs to improve more.

(I don't mean traditonal A.I i mean Self Learning A.I that fully interacts with user)

That would be a massive undertaking for Egosoft—I doubt they could even pull it off. You might want to check out Starcraft AI as a reference. https://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page

[Donauwelle]

Donauwelle lähetti viestin:

Hot take, dont cancel me...
Hyperion and 7.5 isnt that bad...

Ok few more hours in...
It was a bad take, shouldve been canceled...

Whats the deal with polishing things?
A good 7-10 Docking AI maneuvers at the new Hyperion Dock ends with the most goofy clipping possible.
After watching this a while... yeah bad design.
Never do this type of docks again or "fix ai" first....


Id love to know how many testers didnt notice the Pathfinding issues the NPCs have?
I mean 3 seats are 24/7 in Players POV yet most folks are clipping into their chairs.

And then lots of other small things that just make me feel the 7 Bucks wouldve been better spend at some X4NexusMods Patreon...
Crafting station and Teleporter have the "generic basegame design" instead some cool lookin unique ones.
Interrior just a glorified Hall and after my childish love for elevator run off nothing left.
Speaking of nothing.... There is nothing to explore inside the ship...
Walk arround once, been there done that...

Am i the only one who finds some Nexusmod-Ships more polished, thought out and "have more love" then this?


PLS
Next "ship DLC"
14.99 but its a FULL FLEET
Keep storys, stations, Factions, EQ, Modules, Voiceacting and what not...
But make it a consistent fleet or fill some roles for existing ones.
10 Ships atleast. if im not mistaken thats still less Ships then in CoH wich came with all the other DLC thingys....