EGOSOFT HAS DUMBEST FLEET AI IN HISTORY PT.2

[Anarchy31173]

K so my last discussion got shut down ( PT.1 ) since it was a little negative, i mean its not like we exposed EGOSOFT'S dark little secret, everyone known's just how bad the AI is in X4. SO instead of trash talking it into the ground lets flip this around and be positive an post suggestions on how we think EGOSOFT can improve there AI and fleet management without mods. since mods usually cause more problems and instability then they fix.

Clipping through solid objects - stations and asteroids
I don't have any suggestions for a fix on this one, but for me personally anything that immersion breaking is a huge red flag and every reason to stop playing. its not fun

Fleet control Ai - current level of micro management needed to play the game.
the current commands and behaviours are overly complex in some area's and then completely missing in others, this needs a re-build to reduce the pause by pause micro management of 100's of individual ships. Its not fun.

Combat menu - currently the FPS drop so low in the universe menu, even on a good rig its clunky and awful to use, I think this needs a dedicated combat menu with nothing else running through it eg things like trade and none combat units, also not fun to use.

Game balance - several complaints of balance issue still haunt X4F, stop releasing DLC and go back and work on the base game.

Actual fleet perimeters - on cap ships and subordinates for formations and limits like maximum distance for subordinates before they return to the base ship.

Fixed forward facing batteries - on cap ship, got to go ! ( NOT NEGOTIABLE ! ). this also cause's a lot of the bad behaviours which conflict commands, they cant shoot if they don,t move and they cant stay in formation if they aim at anything not in front of them. this restrict's using almost every known tactic. they are not manoeuvrable like fighters, these needs a turret type system.

Separate or configurable power supply - for shields and engines. I'd like to see either the current system with something like a reserve for boosting away in those Oh S#$T moments, or a separate configurable power system.

A new tutorial - to cover everything in game to attract new players and lower the google search simulator effect ( learning curve ) that not having adequate information on your own game can cause. watching streamers for farmed results and not being able to reproduce the results and then get told it's they way i play or Git Gud, again not fun.

Jump Drive - bring it back, this would reduce the amount of Fleets needs to protect all the assets in different sectors thus lowering the need for multiple Fleets thus lowering the memory needed to stop X4F from crashing from way to much going on. 1 single fast response Fleet to do the work of many Fleets. this would be fun

@¥aeko
Weapon/Turret friend or foe safety system, to stop our own ships from shooting each other down in Fleet to Fleet combat. well in any combat really, this would also be awesome around stations to. getting aggro from friendly stations also not fun.

@DOOM
* My fleets still can't maintain formations.
* Tried to sic a Katana at a single Xenon M (high spec + mk2 pulse), pilot nearly died. Took over, blasted it to pieces in seconds.
* Destroyers keep trying to give K's a hug.
* Currently watching L miners ramming each other while docking stations in-sector.
* Pilots routinely phase through walls while landing on Terran docks.
So it still needs a ton of improvements.

Currently there are a lot more helpful suggestions in this thread i will post them when i find them, Dont forget to tag me @Anarchy31173 and try and keep them brief.

So that's just a few things off the top of my and the rest of the communities head i think will help EGOSOFT with there well known game issues, We all have a hell of a lot more to suggest, I just have to find them all.

please share your idea's and remember to be positive

Announcement by egosoft this year 2024 on the release of Timelines.
Over the past few years, the proportion of our players who enjoy "4X" games, and who have discovered us through that genre, has increased significantly. As a result, several key points on our list of improvements for versions 7.50 and 8.00 are designed to enhance the ability to initiate and control large battles, with a focus on the AI to support that (which is, by the way, something that can also be conveniently developed and tested in some of the more advanced X4: Timelines missions). It’s still too early to go into detail, but rest assured that we will be continuing to work on X4, and that the journey doesn’t end with version 7.00!

I'd also like to share one of my posts from earlier to show I do understand just how much work we are all asking for Its a LOT.

personally, I think the real issue is egosoft promised something they cant deliver, from a hardware standpoint of view, what this engine/Ai needs, almost no current PC could run, the levels of memory, GPU and CPU would be INSANE ! for the level of detail to the intelligence of the AI, and egosoft already proved it by using OOS and IS combat, they literally had to change how much data flows through the massive universe they have tried to create to stop the game from crashing due to simply just way to much going on at once. in short i think its the Vulcan engine they used that is really holding them back and or how thy are using it, take away the seamless transition from station to ship and ship to ship, and unfortunately throw in a few load screens and they'd might actually have a chance at pulling this off.... in short i don't think it can be done, they are WAY to deep and waited WAY to late to make any real difference.

I hope I'm wrong, I would like to have a bit more fun for the money I payed so far.

But maybe this will be a lesson for the highly anticipated X5

FYI i run
CPU 12th gen i7 12770
RAM 32 Gb
GPU 12 GB RTX 3060
and a 5120x1440 curve screen with a 4K UHD as a utility screen
so a mid to high end rig and my rig could barely run this now, more so in the universe map only getting 7 FPS , Fleet combat was clunky and S##T !

[Chewtoy]

Pilot star level dose effect its AI, if its 1 star its gonna be bad XD

[Agent707]

*slain by wall of text*

[Anarchy31173]

Originally posted by Chewtoy:

Pilot star level dose effect its AI, if its 1 star its gonna be bad XD

yeah i got all 4 and 5 star caps on my destroyers and carriers, it hasn't helped.

[Duke Flapjack]

Ok, dude, you're going about this all wrong. I honestly don't disagree (apart from the insulting title; I've seen much worse AI from space games) but you are talking to the wrong people. Egosoft has their own forum and they don't tend to pay a whole lot of attention to this one other than moderating it. If you want traction (or potentially attract a mod maker) then go there.

[Anarchy31173]

Originally posted by Duke Flapjack:

Ok, dude, you're going about this all wrong. I honestly don't disagree (apart from the insulting title; I've seen much worse AI from space games) but you are talking to the wrong people. Egosoft has their own forum and they don't tend to pay a whole lot of attention to this one other than moderating it. If you want traction (or potentially attract a mod maker) then go there.

have you seen there forum lately, its a mess, type in something to search to get help and you get 60K plus results that don't explain anything, so last resort, i'm hoping someone in the right place takes a little notice here is all, but thanks for your important input im sure someone will value it.

[Duke Flapjack]

Originally posted by Anarchy31173:

Originally posted by Duke Flapjack:

Ok, dude, you're going about this all wrong. I honestly don't disagree (apart from the insulting title; I've seen much worse AI from space games) but you are talking to the wrong people. Egosoft has their own forum and they don't tend to pay a whole lot of attention to this one other than moderating it. If you want traction (or potentially attract a mod maker) then go there.

have you seen there forum lately, its a mess, type in something to search to get help and you get 60K plus results that don't explain anything, so last resort, i'm hoping someone in the right place takes a little notice here is all, but thanks for your important input im sure someone will value it.

Whatever floats your boat, but you *are* wasting your time.

BTW, Egosoft's search by default searches ALL their forums, so that's probably why you are getting so much trash. They are actually pretty well moderated and maintained. I've had no issues with them since I started using them back in the day (2005, I believe).

[Agent707]

Might I suggest a good bottle of cabernet sauvignon

[eMYNOCK]

Please keep it civil or this Topic is doomed to go down the same way the last one did...

[Natasha]

It also have a lot to do with x4 mapping, there was an internal tool for x3 mapping which is also why managing fleets is far more natural when x3 becomes a empire management game like x4, x4 lack that tool now.

Now you'll have to use external tools and that just doesn't get the job done.

Again as i said in most of my post, they are forced to keep advancing in graphichs and visual effect cause that's how games sell on Steam, but as that advance the gameplay goes in the other direction, be sure of that like in every other game.

Dlc is like a empty shell compared to mods, it can never replace the community period. I still want Egosoft to make them of course, it's still better than nothing.

There's no constructive ways of dealing with this problem, you're always gonna struggle managing your fleet, that's just the way the game is.

I don't make mods, i just take after what there has been said on the official forum and go from there.

Sorry if i didn't add anything useful, i just don't see how you can improve it.

[lobbotekka2019]

Originally posted by RedMonkeyButt:

Originally posted by Anarchy31173:

i'd like to see some sort of FLEET arena/system fighting with multiple game types eg death match, survival, capture flag etc etc.

Sounds like you want X4 to be mindless pew pew nonsense made for masses.

This seems like a great idea.

We have the ship models/assets etc. A simulator mode where we can create and spawn fleets purely for combat purposes.

We could have unique ships that are unfrocked through venture specifically for this.

[Noble Ten]

I feel like he should be playing Dreadnaught ? If thats what he wants. Capture the flag and all, with arenas

[JamesTBG]

I played X4 for dozens of hours at start and put it aside because of the dumb ai. Every dlc I get back into the game just to get frustrated by the hour long reposition of fleets (if you let them). So yes. I would pay for a DLC that focuses on AI, ships and such things. Currently Egosoft can throw content over content, i wont play it till they fix those basic stuff.

Regarding that arena thingy. Its a nice idea which could fit in the universe by using a tournament character. Its still Singleplayer tho.

[Natasha]

Originally posted by JamesTBG:

I played X4 for dozens of hours at start and put it aside because of the dumb ai. Every dlc I get back into the game just to get frustrated by the hour long reposition of fleets (if you let them). So yes. I would pay for a DLC that focuses on AI, ships and such things. Currently Egosoft can throw content over content, i wont play it till they fix those basic stuff.

Regarding that arena thingy. Its a nice idea which could fit in the universe by using a tournament character. Its still Singleplayer tho.

They would have done that already if it was possible, it's not for this game atleast.

[Prown]

Originally posted by Chewtoy:

Pilot star level dose effect its AI, if its 1 star its gonna be bad XD

I feel like too many people use this as an easy out and excuse

It's not true, even at 5 stars the AI is dumb as rocks. Load up the cheat mod and set all your ships to max level, you will notice they are still doing the same things at 1 star. The only real difference is that their max engagement range changes so they don't fly directly into a station to start shooting

[Detective Dan]

Originally posted by Agent707:

*slain by wall of text*

Yeah i was kinda put off by that too