No to Diplomacy...without strategy layer :: X4: Foundations General Discussions

Store Page

X4: Foundations

All Discussions Screenshots Artwork Broadcasts Videos Workshop News Guides Reviews

X4: Foundations > General Discussions > Topic Details

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Jul 3, 2024 @ 12:28pm

No to Diplomacy...without strategy layer

I wonder where some people get the idea X4 is a strategy game(let alone a 4X). X4 is a space simulation sandbox as per the description and tags and any strategy elements it has is a pure coincidence and an oversight from the devs. Adding Diplomacy the usual Egosoft style will be no different to terraforming or timelines: the feature is kind of there but completely disconnected from the rest of the game. I've tried many times with various mods to turn X4 into a 4X experience but the strategy layer is fundamentally missing from the game design requirements and lacking lots of crucial features:

Admin cap tied to sector control/research/population resources.
If a player is to play as a faction it has to follow the same rules as existing AI factions which have very clear limits on the number of fleets and stations they can have. Otherwise you are playing creative sandbox not strategy- no discuss.
Alternative unlocks for all blueprints - research/reverse engineering/stealing
If a player cannot build ships(or even build a shipyard) without aligning with a faction first then player is not considered a faction.
QOL automation - restocking subs/deploying fleets from templates/working patrols is not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ optional.
Unless you want to pause every moment a trader is destroyed and fight the marvel of the German UI engineering.
Strategic AI.
If ship AI is bad strategy level AI is non-existent as it's scripted to send fleet after fleet into the meatcube grinder(aka defence stations).

...and then we can talk about faction to faction and player to faction diplomacy options.

But since community is entrenched in "muh sandbox" experience and clearly desires more story missions none of that matters. The only option to experience X series as 4X is to play mayhem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDzOdDZpvxM

The author of this topic has marked a post as the answer to their question.
Click here to jump to that post.

Originally posted by Kreon91 [GER]:

Mayhem vet here. In my opinion you can't really implement actual strategic challenge into the X series. Each playthrough is so long that players are too invested to be able to lose. So it is not actually difficult to suceed in Mayhem. Yes there are actual limitations but they mostly work as sub goals that you need to overcome and not really turn it into a real strategy game. You can still pretty much grind your way to victory and for the most part it's a "chill" game.

But where Mayhem completely blows anything else out of the water is when it comes to dynamism and emergent gameplay. In Mayhem there are genuine suprises for the player and his safe grinding process gets interrupted from time to time to the point where he needs to solve actual problems and adapt. Maybe some sector that he planned with got taken by someone else. Or some OCV fleet pays a visit. His freighters can't serve the factories due to pirate presence, etc. There is actual brain stimulus and that's what makes it so engaging and zen-like.

In comparison X4 is a grind fest with no problems to overcome and nothing truly interesting ever allowed to happen. The vanilla game just follows a different game design philosophy. X4 is a curated sandbox and Mayhem is a freeform sandbox. You can't really compare them and both have their merits. Curated is much better for the mainstream audience. Freeform is better for the mods.

The official Egosoft diplomacy will definitely follow the curated path. It will basically be a glorified reputation repair option with a few additional war/peace options without any extra storylines attached to it. There won't be that dynamism where the AI does cool stuff on its own.

< >

Showing 1-15 of 42 comments

zpc Jul 3, 2024 @ 12:30pm

You have my swordsupport. Now lets fetch a nice engine and do it.

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Jul 3, 2024 @ 12:34pm

Originally posted by zpc:
You have my swordsupport. Now lets fetch a nice engine and do it. :lunar2019coolpig:

Let me just ask German government for some funding.... They said no :(

ites

Jul 3, 2024 @ 1:00pm

diplomacy is already implemented in the form of rewards for actions. it is some kind of negotiation, isn't it. imagine you could choose a reward.
it could be build upon, since it's.. uni-directional in its current state. for severe negative consequences of your actions you have to shoot people in the face - and thats it.
releations depending on relations (my enemies enemy...) for a start- is solvable via mods.

supplying a shipyard as a coincidental development oversight? how do you call the planning for that, if not 'strategy'?
mayhem compresses X into more mass: from more micro to more macro and much less cockpit. it actually removes strategic depth.

76561197964302789 Jul 3, 2024 @ 5:29pm

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Jul 5, 2024 @ 7:51am

Originally posted by Project Danny:
Stop being selfish. Let others have diplomacy if you don't like it simply turn it off

Not sure if trolling or simply can't read.

zpc Jul 5, 2024 @ 10:02am

Originally posted by Meme Turtle:
Originally posted by Project Danny:
Stop being selfish. Let others have diplomacy if you don't like it simply turn it off
Not sure if trolling or simply can't read.

You could add a tl;dr for all those people who only read the headline...

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Jul 5, 2024 @ 10:41am

Originally posted by zpc:
Originally posted by Meme Turtle:
Not sure if trolling or simply can't read.

You could add a tl;dr for all those people who only read the headline... :lunar2020ratinablanket:

Check the title again. Literary says no to diplomacy without (functioning) strategy layer. Can't get more concise than that.

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Dec 5, 2024 @ 4:45am

Originally posted by Egosoft:
Third quarter 2025 – Diplomacy Update
Later in 2025, we are planning a free base game update that will focus on Diplomacy gameplay in X4: Foundations. This update will introduce a new room in the player’s headquarters, where faction representatives can gather and offer you strategic options. In addition to this room, players will have access to agents (NPCs) who can be dispatched on independent missions to achieve diplomatic goals in the X universe. The highlight of this update will be Diplomatic Events, giving players the opportunity to manipulate their own relations with other factions, and even in some cases between specific NPC factions. We’ll have more to share regarding further features of the Diplomacy Update as we get closer to its release.

No, thanks!

¥aeko

Dec 5, 2024 @ 4:50am

bruh... better diplomacy like this, than none at all, eh?

🎮 PalkoVvodets 🔑 has X4: Foundations

Dec 5, 2024 @ 5:16am

Just raising the rep as a "diplomacy" feature isn't much useful (except for FAF) for experienced players. Making Teladi fight PAR/ZYA/ARG that is great addition.

#10

Pathogenic has X4: Foundations

Dec 5, 2024 @ 6:28am

The thing that prevents X4 from becoming a proper 4X is that factions get infinite money. Without financial constraints, there is no proper ability to have strategy between factions. Sure, there are ware limitations. But with their unlimited money, a faction on the ropes can simply buy whatever they need to rebuild their ships and stations from other friendly or neutral factions.

#11

simeon

Dec 5, 2024 @ 6:38am

Originally posted by Meme Turtle:
Originally posted by Egosoft:
Third quarter 2025 – Diplomacy Update
Later in 2025, we are planning a free base game update that will focus on Diplomacy gameplay in X4: Foundations. This update will introduce a new room in the player’s headquarters, where faction representatives can gather and offer you strategic options. In addition to this room, players will have access to agents (NPCs) who can be dispatched on independent missions to achieve diplomatic goals in the X universe. The highlight of this update will be Diplomatic Events, giving players the opportunity to manipulate their own relations with other factions, and even in some cases between specific NPC factions. We’ll have more to share regarding further features of the Diplomacy Update as we get closer to its release.

No, thanks!

What, is this in that Beta too already?
I thought it is planned for later 2025.
Anyhow, hope you guys have fun testing this.

#12

¥aeko

Dec 5, 2024 @ 6:58am

Originally posted by Pathogenic:
The thing that prevents X4 from becoming a proper 4X is that factions get infinite money.

Please dont make egosoft bring that back... 1.0 PTSD kicking hard right now, with savegames breaking left, right, center because factions ran out of cash.

#13

Meme Turtle has X4: Foundations

Dec 5, 2024 @ 7:01am

Originally posted by simeon:
Originally posted by Meme Turtle:

No, thanks!

What, is this in that Beta too already?
I thought it is planned for later 2025.
Anyhow, hope you guys have fun testing this.

Not in the beta, it's part of 2025 roadmap. I'd rather ES focus on something else if it's going to be another feature like terraforming.

#14

simeon

Dec 5, 2024 @ 7:09am

Originally posted by Meme Turtle:
Originally posted by simeon:

What, is this in that Beta too already?
I thought it is planned for later 2025.
Anyhow, hope you guys have fun testing this.

Not in the beta, it's part of 2025 roadmap. I'd rather ES focus on something else if it's going to be another feature like terraforming.

Ah ok, I misunderstood in the way you had the chance to see this already.
Thanks for the info.