Are Argons the "bad guys" in this game? (possible spoilers I guess?)

[Fel]

I mean, they have decent ships and all but they seem to be involved directly or indirectly in all of the wars.

The are taking sides in the paranid civil war, they are involved with the vigor syndicate (against the Teladi), they are at war with the terrans and invading the splits.

In my game at least they seem to be handling all fronts just fine even without me helping them, to the point where it pushes the narrative that they are trying to take over the whole gate network.


Of course I know that they are not really that and the current situation in my game is a result of several RNG things coming together in their favour.
But them being directly or indirectly at war with nearly everyone still makes them out to be very agressive expansionists.

[Cellar_Cat]

Well, HOP hates everyone so they're probably not at fault there. Not sure about the Vigor bit I guess I forgot it.

They aren't at war with Terrans unless you trigger it, and in that case the Terrans directly cause it by conspiring against them and ANT.

Split use Argon as slaves. So they would be at war...

[zpc]

No, there are none tbh - besides the Xenon. Kha'ak no one really knows - they just shoot, but there was never any communication. Xenon MO is pretty clear since - forever.

All those faction wars are a consequence of the re-wiring of the gates. What was stable before now got real cracks. It's also in the players hands as all those diplomatic missions are just options. Don't know of any canon lore established by those (we'll know in X5 )

Basic alignments before X4 / X:Rebirth were
Argon + Boron vs Split + Paranids
Teladi always were some kind of a wildcard (nurturing pirates but never had active conflicts with other factions AFAIK)

At least in the games there never were any real wars before (don't count X3:AP here as it is just a glue between X³ and X:Rebirth / X4).

To me, it's like this:
Good guys: ARG, BOR
Troublemakers: Pirates, SPL
Neutral: TEL
Arrogant: PAR

[conrado.lacerda]

There's something in the X universe lore about the Argon Federation actually being run from the shadows by the secret service, which subtly conspires against all possible threats/rivals.

[The Big Brzezinski]

Players are the villains, and super villains at that. Everyone else is just trying to compete and stay alive in the face of multiple threats to all of civilization.

[zpc]

Originally posted by The Big Brzezinski:

Players are the villains, and super villains at that. Everyone else is just trying to compete and stay alive in the face of multiple threats to all of civilization.

Heh. Guess you're on to something... ^^

[Xautos]

Good and bad guys are a point of view, i mean to the Argon the Split are enemies, yet to the Split the Argon are enemies. so they are both see each other as good and bad guys from different points of view. same with troublemakers and haughty types.

[hurepoix]

Originally posted by Xautos:

Good and bad guys are a point of view, i mean to the Argon the Split are enemies, yet to the Split the Argon are enemies. so they are both see each other as good and bad guys from different points of view. same with troublemakers and haughty types.

the enemy is stupid. He thinks we are the enemy, when in fact it's him.

(Pierre Desproges)

[Farrel]

Every character is the hero in their own opinion.

To the Terrans, the Argon are absolutely the villains, a splinter group that should immediately submit to government of Terra to be protected from their dissident groups... Oh wait, they don't want to? They're all dissidents and terrorists then.

To the Argon, the Split are warlike and both paranid factions are overly theocratic and xenophobic... The Teladi are corrupt and greedy, and the Terrans are self important and pushy. (And more than a little Xenophobic themselves)

Honestly, if there is a 'good guy' faction, I'd probably lean towards either the Boron or the Teladi... The Boron really just want peace and unity amongst the peoples of the galaxy, and the Teladi figure that pretty much everyone can improve their lives by becoming trade partners.

But yeah, every faction feels as though they are the good guy... For a Paranid, it's just right and proper to spread the faith, as the holy trinity is obviously the correct belief... The split accept that conflict is inevitable, it's only right that the strongest families rise to the top and bring unity to those who fall into line.

It's all a question of perspective.

Heck even the Xenon have a claim to morality in their own perspective... "Hey, we've got this job to do, guys, and we need you out of the way to do it."

[Gibbo]

Hmm I'm sure I read somewhere many years ago that the split want to kill everyone and then themselves lol? Anyway the Terrans are worse I think. They just turn up for the Boron gate opening and are only interested in any threat to them. Often violate Hatikvah space with their fleets and built an illegal station in Pioneer space. Just working for them made me feel dirty.

[Aprosule]

I think we're better off looking at the alignments of the factions. For example, the Court of the Curbs would be Lawful Evil while the Zyarth Patriarchy would be trending towards Lawful Neutral since they're willing to negotiate slave rights away.

[Fel]

The splits seem to like combat for the sake of combat, not really to expand or conquer.

Terrans see themselves as the protectors of the gate network (self-appointed of course), especially against xenons.

The only faction that I can't seem to figure out are the Argons.
At first glance they seem fairly nice but they don't seem to have a clear reason for doing what they are doing.
They use both military and shady means without even hiding it (or doing a rather poor job at it).

Going around the whole place and getting to know the various factions left me with more questions than answers when it comes to the Argons, while the rest were all pretty clear on what they want, and more importantly why.

[Mad_House]

Boron and the Segaris Pioneers are pretty much your "good guys," and to a certain degree the Teladi Company and Ministry of Finance is as well.

No real way to go to war with them besides outright slaughtering them for no reason.

It's a shame there's not really a Teladi storyline. I'd love to wreck Lizard society with space communism and the redistribution of profit control from female teladi to male teladi.

[Fel]

Well, if a storyline comes out for Teladi, I would think it would be about a fight between the Ministry of finance and the "corrupt" merchants within the Teladi that see profit as the only goal without minding the means (kind of like the twins).

That, or a more insidious corruption within the Ministry itself that turns them from their protection of the territory and fighting off corruption within the Teladi.

[Gibbo]

lmao yeah the Teladi are very neutral as all they care about is profit. The Split do have an agenda. Destroy the Argon and then whoever is next, but they are split (no pun intended) and that's something the player can help with. The Boron can be dangerous simply due to their laid back attitude. In X3 Reunion a Boron nearly wiped out a planet as he was piloting a huge freighter which crashed while he was out of his face on space weed and think space fuel as well. I think millions died in that. Nasty business.

[Farrel]

Originally posted by Mad_House:

Boron and the Segaris Pioneers are pretty much your "good guys," and to a certain degree the Teladi Company and Ministry of Finance is as well.

No real way to go to war with them besides outright slaughtering them for no reason.

It's a shame there's not really a Teladi storyline. I'd love to wreck Lizard society with space communism and the redistribution of profit control from female teladi to male teladi.

Tides of avarice has some minor Teladi involvement in storyline. The main quest of the DLC features a ... Well, I assume young, inexperienced teladi trader turned philanthropist, wanting your help to try to improve conditions for the riptide rakers.

Working for the Emperian Currs also features Ace, a teladi fighter pilot who has a bone to pick with the ministry of finance... Whilst the mission chain with the currs isn't so hard, especially late game, it's rather more difficult if you're determined to keep Ace alive, as he seems determined to die with his boots on against the Ministry...

If you read between the lines on what he tells you about the ministry's training methods, I can't deny, that might be kinder too.