HOTAS for a beginner

[Tiger]

Hello, I'm looking to get into playing x4 with a HOTAS setup. I'm new to using any sort of hotas setup and looking for recommendations on what controllers people enjoy using to play x4, as information online is outdated and unclear.

Thank you!

[Gwizzz]

There are several HOTAS that work with X4. I use a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro joystick with X, Y and Z axis (don't have to use rudder pedals or keyboard for Yaw). It has a side button for missiles, a top HAT, 4 buttons on the top (more than MS Sidewinder) and several buttons on the base that I no longer use since I started using a Thrustmaster TWCS throttle. It also has many buttons, different HATs, paddles, and the throttle slides on two metal rails. If you order one, also get some Nyogel 767A lubricant (also on Amazon) to apply to the rails. Nyogel gives the throttle a nice smooth, even throttle feeling (highly recommended by flight sim enthusiasts).

[Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH]

HOTAS is suboptimal for 6dof flight (spaceflight as opposed to normal 3d aeroflight).

Worse you'll pay an arm and a leg for a throttle.

Source: Played and gave up on Star Citizen after 8 years.

I started out with an X52 Saitek (madCatz) and the buttons wore out fairly quickly under pressure. The stick was very loose in the gimbal - but I also had some skill/technique issues.

As I play/played a lot of milsim flightsims at the time, I invested in Thrustmaster Warthog. Very expensive - great for DCS, horrible for spaceflight. Big mistake from a space sim point of view.

I actually went out and read NASA/JPL studies on what they found worked most effectively - and the answer appeared to be duel sticks with low gain flight style - which corresponded to what worked in combat.

Dual sticks are the way to go. It's cheaper than HOTAS, and it makes more sense from a ergonomic/scientific point of view - and it feels completely natural and intuitive. A cheap logitech HOTAS at retail price will probably set you back the same as two of these.

So rather than keep you in suspense, there's a correct answer; Dual Sticks - and specifically these ones https://vkb-sim.com.au/collections/standard-controllers

I have tried all the main ones, with the following findings:

Thrustmaster t16000ms: cheap, good entry level stick but poor quality and poor button budget),

Virpil: broke, over engineered, expensive, requires full mounting, required much much set up

Saitek x52: Poor quality, begins deteriorating immediately, daisychained stick and throttle

TM Warthog: Not great for space sims, with no rotation on right sticks. Terrible for bare hands.


and I finally settled on the

VKB Gladiators - these are a good price, modular/repairable/replaceable, relatively comfortable, excellent precision, fantastic number of buttons; upgradeable.

Next is the question of how you want to set them all up and what might work for you best

Secondly, it might seem strange at first, but you will ideally want to start with a left stick - why? Because your mouse is an excellent control device - and your keyboard, it is not. Most of the functions you want to swap are on your keyboard.

Because really, this is a problem of access. You want to be able to access as many functions at once - and specifically access as many axes of freedom at once. So if you're on a budget, it might really be worth considering start with left stick.

Ideally you'll want both left and right sticks to start - with left stick focusing on movement related stuff and right stick being your more selected and target/combat/executive stick. From there after you learn how to use them (plenty of guides from Star Citizen are applicable here - have not seen a dual sticks tutorial amongst the many excellent X4 tutorials but generally the same principles apply in terms of bingind them out).

Until you dial in your specific settings on your sticks - you'll want to fly around and gradually transfer functions that you do a lot from the keyboard on to the sticks so that you can access them really quickly as a "combo" (e.g. I have set guidance and activate autopilot set to L-R on one of the sticks directional sticks, meaning setting and starting guidance to a point is really fast. This is just an example).

If you can't afford the VKB Gladiators (NXT? I dunno what the acronyms are up to) the T16000ms are a cheaper a starter option. Many many players complained of the potentiometer going in them - and I had to get many of them warrantied until TM gave up on them.

However, this game is not nearly as punishing as SC on controls - and you might find they work fine. Button budget is a bit of a hindrance on them though. If you can afford it VKB Gladiators which cost me about 220aud, were an excellent option - and most signficantly, they use plugs instead of glue or solder inside - so you aren't SOL if something breaks - and VKB are great about offering parts and repairs if its something you can't get yourself.

I cannot overstate how much time, toil and tears this saves you in the long run.

If you play or plan to play any other space/6dof games - you really should get these as they add a huge degree of immersion to any spaceflight game, save you so much energy (it's just more efficient on your body) and you will instantly fly better (ok, some people instantly fly a lot worse - but everyone agrees once you learn them, its THE best option).

Anyways sorry for the stream of conscioussness - having coffee for breakfast at 7pm.

[Tomonor]

Hello Tiger,

The answers will vary greatly because people usually stick with what product they buy unless it is suboptimal in quality. For instance, I use a Logitech X56, which I find pretty efficient for X4's gameplay, plus I also use the stick for smooth camera movement when I'm making the cinematic trailers for the game.

I'd say that you should start watching review videos of joystick products on Youtube first, see the quirks of each model, then filter them out by price/liking ratio. At least that's how I eventually decided with the X56.

But to name a few manufacturers to give you a basic headstart: Virpil, Logitech/Saitek, Thrustmaster, Hori, etc.

[Wizard]

Originally posted by Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

So rather than keep you in suspense, there's a correct answer; Dual Sticks - and specifically these ones https://vkb-sim.com.au/collections/standard-controllers

I have tried all the main ones, with the following findings:

Thrustmaster t16000ms: cheap, good entry level stick but poor quality and poor button budget),

I use the same dual sticks and they are excellent. I upgraded from the Thrustmaster t1600ms as well for the same reason.

Everything in Anaryl's post is accurate.

[Wizard]

Beyond the joysticks, if you're looking for a desk mount system, I highly recommend this:

https://www.monster.tech/en/product-category/table-mounts/

They're rock solid on my desk, well build, and excellent customer service. I was hesitant at first because of the price, but I'd buy them again in a heartbeat.

Here's the USA site too:

https://www.mtsim.com/

[Gwizzz]

Originally posted by Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH:

HOTAS is suboptimal for 6dof flight (spaceflight as opposed to normal 3d aeroflight).

Worse you'll pay an arm and a leg for a throttle.

Source: Played and gave up on Star Citizen after 8 years.

I started out with an X52 Saitek (madCatz) and the buttons wore out fairly quickly under pressure. The stick was very loose in the gimbal - but I also had some skill/technique issues.

As I play/played a lot of milsim flightsims at the time, I invested in Thrustmaster Warthog. Very expensive - great for DCS, horrible for spaceflight. Big mistake from a space sim point of view.

I actually went out and read NASA/JPL studies on what they found worked most effectively - and the answer appeared to be duel sticks with low gain flight style - which corresponded to what worked in combat.

Dual sticks are the way to go. It's cheaper than HOTAS, and it makes more sense from a ergonomic/scientific point of view - and it feels completely natural and intuitive. A cheap logitech HOTAS at retail price will probably set you back the same as two of these.

So rather than keep you in suspense, there's a correct answer; Dual Sticks - and specifically these ones https://vkb-sim.com.au/collections/standard-controllers

I have tried all the main ones, with the following findings:

Thrustmaster t16000ms: cheap, good entry level stick but poor quality and poor button budget),

Virpil: broke, over engineered, expensive, requires full mounting, required much much set up

Saitek x52: Poor quality, begins deteriorating immediately, daisychained stick and throttle

TM Warthog: Not great for space sims, with no rotation on right sticks. Terrible for bare hands.


and I finally settled on the

VKB Gladiators - these are a good price, modular/repairable/replaceable, relatively comfortable, excellent precision, fantastic number of buttons; upgradeable.

Next is the question of how you want to set them all up and what might work for you best

Secondly, it might seem strange at first, but you will ideally want to start with a left stick - why? Because your mouse is an excellent control device - and your keyboard, it is not. Most of the functions you want to swap are on your keyboard.

Because really, this is a problem of access. You want to be able to access as many functions at once - and specifically access as many axes of freedom at once. So if you're on a budget, it might really be worth considering start with left stick.

Ideally you'll want both left and right sticks to start - with left stick focusing on movement related stuff and right stick being your more selected and target/combat/executive stick. From there after you learn how to use them (plenty of guides from Star Citizen are applicable here - have not seen a dual sticks tutorial amongst the many excellent X4 tutorials but generally the same principles apply in terms of bingind them out).

Until you dial in your specific settings on your sticks - you'll want to fly around and gradually transfer functions that you do a lot from the keyboard on to the sticks so that you can access them really quickly as a "combo" (e.g. I have set guidance and activate autopilot set to L-R on one of the sticks directional sticks, meaning setting and starting guidance to a point is really fast. This is just an example).

If you can't afford the VKB Gladiators (NXT? I dunno what the acronyms are up to) the T16000ms are a cheaper a starter option. Many many players complained of the potentiometer going in them - and I had to get many of them warrantied until TM gave up on them.

However, this game is not nearly as punishing as SC on controls - and you might find they work fine. Button budget is a bit of a hindrance on them though. If you can afford it VKB Gladiators which cost me about 220aud, were an excellent option - and most signficantly, they use plugs instead of glue or solder inside - so you aren't SOL if something breaks - and VKB are great about offering parts and repairs if its something you can't get yourself.

I cannot overstate how much time, toil and tears this saves you in the long run.

If you play or plan to play any other space/6dof games - you really should get these as they add a huge degree of immersion to any spaceflight game, save you so much energy (it's just more efficient on your body) and you will instantly fly better (ok, some people instantly fly a lot worse - but everyone agrees once you learn them, its THE best option).

Anyways sorry for the stream of conscioussness - having coffee for breakfast at 7pm.

They look great.. for driving a tank or a mech.

[Wizard]

Originally posted by Gwizzz:

They look great.. for driving a tank or a mech.

They're great in Farming Simulator also.

[Anaryl, Emperor of Sol. GEH]

Originally posted by Gwizzz:

They look great.. for driving a tank or a mech.

Mech yes, tank no ... at least so far.

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by Tiger:

Hello, I'm looking to get into playing x4 with a HOTAS setup. I'm new to using any sort of hotas setup and looking for recommendations on what controllers people enjoy using to play x4, as information online is outdated and unclear.

Thank you!

Those guys are selling you expensive.

Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS X, Joystick and Throttle With Dual Rudder System works surprisngly well for me. They aslo split if you need it to. And not as expensive as some. I recommend it.

[Wizard]

I used a X52 during my time playing X3, most of it on a disc, not Steam. After my 500 or so hours, several of the buttons had stopped working. When the main trigger went, it was time to let it go. That said, when it worked well, I loved it. It's worth noting that this is back when Saitek made the X52.

I bought dual Thrustmaster 16000ms when I bought X4. I got the duals, a throttle, and the pedals for the same price I paid for the X52 years earlier. I thought I got a deal, but they felt cheap right away. The X52 felt better built. About 100 hours in, one of the sticks started having dead zone issues. 200 hours in, one of the triggers would only respond sometimes.

By now MS Flightsim, whatever the newest one was, just came out and hotas' were sold out everywhere, so I Ebayed the Thrustmaster set, and made more than I paid for it.

After much research, I bought the NXT Gladiator set. Those have gotten me through 250 hours of X4, 1400 hours of FarmSim22, and anything in between I've thrown at it, and still work as well as when I first got them. The build is excellent. With shipping, I think they were around $350.