Suggestion: Increase Range of All Weapons

[Legendary Waffle]

I have been modding my games recently and I found a mod that doubles the range of all weapons and it has significantly improved combat in my opinion. Capital ships suddenly feel inline with how I feel a Capital ship should be.

• With increased range of main battery Destroyers fight at a distance and bombard targets instead of trying to dog fight a station.
  
• Turrets seem relevant again so using a gunboat wing actually has an impact.
  
• The overall feel of combat feels more correct.

I think the Developers should consider making these changes in the base game. The mod I use doesn't change any of the damage values on the weapons only projectile speed and range resulting in combat that seems significantly improved.

What I would change

• Increase projectile speed and weapon range.
  
• Improve strafing speeds across the board. Generally around 25% but should be tweaked per case.
  
• With the bullets going further and lasting longer before they de-spawn it might make sense to decrease rate of fire then increase damage to maintain the same dps. This will help with performance. I dont have issues on my PC with the mod but I imagine others might.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

Originally posted by Legendary Waffle:

Well each time i edit the files in the mod folder and reload the game it seems like the mod fails to load on restart.... not sure what I am doing wrong

I managed to locate the mod, the one that has all the data seems to be the dat file.

This is not my area of expertise but I have successfully edited files in the past for other games.

If you change any data and simply overwrite the file it should save any changes although if you change the file format the game might not register it.

If all fails then I'm sure NoDMoD can help sort it out.

At this point I want to hop in, I had the plasma speed much lower before, but I was urged to increased them, so I did.

Now someone else comes along and wants them decreased again XD

I can't make the mod fit everyones taste, but I could make a second version of it, with reduced plasma speeds. Just let me know how you guys want plasma to behave - what range? How fast?

And thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

I managed to locate the mod, the one that has all the data seems to be the dat file.

This is not my area of expertise but I have successfully edited files in the past for other games.

If you change any data and simply overwrite the file it should save any changes although if you change the file format the game might not register it.

If all fails then I'm sure NoDMoD can help sort it out.

At this point I want to hop in, I had the plasma speed much lower before, but I was urged to increased them, so I did.

Now someone else comes along and wants them decreased again XD

I can't make the mod fit everyones taste, but I could make a second version of it, with reduced plasma speeds. Just let me know how you guys want plasma to behave - what range? How fast?

And thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!

Hey :) NP. Thanks for hopping in, and thanks for making this mod. It's made me feel positive about the game for the first time in ages (at last something to un-jank the combat for real).

Iv'e only just started playing again (reinstalled X4 today) and have not enough experience with it to make any valid comments yet.

Wraith and Waffle are the people who will have a good idea about the details of a reduced plasma version since they seem to have been using it a lot.

[Legendary Waffle]

Haha just when i figured out how to do it myself. But it is probably best you make a new version.

I am not going to be home until later to test but my current feeling are that L plasma bullets are actually as fast as L bolt bullets ( While doing many times more damage per bullet). Which makes them just better in every way than everything else. I feel like Plasma is designed to be an anti capital weapon so landing hits should be hard on smaller targets.

So with all that said I feel like keeping everything uniform at 2 times speed and lifetime would be good place to start. I don't want to keep bugging you to tweak this over and over so I will test this later and update or just update it right way.. your choice.

[det2048]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

Originally posted by det2048:

I'm all for this if it makes the game harder or more interesting. I'm tired of players complaining about games being too hard then the game is made easier and easier and more homogenized as the overbalanced the game (WOW retail). Then people get bored and stop playing.

The problem with the current AI is not to do with hard/easy. It's to do with the whole jankiness of combat AI/command/control. It can make for a very tedious and tiring experience.

I think you will find most people will agree with this.

This is a non sequitur answer. What I was talking about was difficulty not the the pilot AI which I also agree can be improved. But I work with what I got and I find ways around it on how to do things. I just don't want this game to mistakenly fix an issue with AI that compromises the game play making it less interesting and more easy. There are smarter ways to fix the bad AI, than adjusting range. Its a solution to a symptom, not a fix to the underlying problem.

[Legendary Waffle]

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

At this point I want to hop in, I had the plasma speed much lower before, but I was urged to increased them, so I did.

Now someone else comes along and wants them decreased again XD

I can't make the mod fit everyones taste, but I could make a second version of it, with reduced plasma speeds. Just let me know how you guys want plasma to behave - what range? How fast?

And thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!

Just tested with x2 times modifiers on plasma. I think it works out perfect now

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by det2048:

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

The problem with the current AI is not to do with hard/easy. It's to do with the whole jankiness of combat AI/command/control. It can make for a very tedious and tiring experience.

I think you will find most people will agree with this.

This is a non sequitur answer. What I was talking about was difficulty not the the pilot AI which I also agree can be improved. But I work with what I got and I find ways around it on how to do things. I just don't want this game to mistakenly fix an issue with AI that compromises the game play making it less interesting and more easy. There are smarter ways to fix the bad AI, than adjusting range. Its a solution to a symptom, not a fix to the underlying problem.

I agree 100% that there is an underlying problem with the AI, but Egosoft don't seem to be in any rush to either acknowledge that or do anything about it, so I am greatful that NoDMod has provided a solution to the combat (which actually I think is an insightful and inventive one).

Iv'e not even begun to really test out this mod (having just re-installed the game) but after trying out a few initial ship~ship encounters I have to say it makes a big difference and combat just feels *right* this way so far.
The extra range on weapons means there is far less nonsense with ships trying to position. I have to say I think it has highlighted one of the AI problems with the game, the vanilla encounter ranges for combat are obviously way too short, causing the problems of ships idiotic behaviour yoyo-ing around and not firing on targets.

Imo the current kludgy in-game workarounds for combat in X4 are unacceptable and a nonsense. I quit the game 6 months ago because I had enough of it's bs, So until Egosoft actually fix the underlying problems with the AI...seriously will they EVER fix it? I'm more than happy to advocate any solutions that make the game playable and fun.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Legendary Waffle:

Originally posted by NoDMoD:

At this point I want to hop in, I had the plasma speed much lower before, but I was urged to increased them, so I did.

Now someone else comes along and wants them decreased again XD

I can't make the mod fit everyones taste, but I could make a second version of it, with reduced plasma speeds. Just let me know how you guys want plasma to behave - what range? How fast?

And thanks for the feedback, appreciate it!

Just tested with x2 times modifiers on plasma. I think it works out perfect now

What range do they have now? And what projectile speed?
Would you like to upload this version? Feel free to do so if you want, else you can send me a copy and I will do it.

[Legendary Waffle]

I have no idea how to host my changes into a workshop mod also it would be better if you hosted since most of the changes are yours. All I did was take the base values from "speed" and "lifetime" found the commented XML in each of the macro files you made then doubled each in the "diff".


So for example this is one file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<diff>
  <replace sel="//bullet/@speed">2458</replace>  
  <replace sel="//bullet/@lifetime">6.6</replace>
</diff>

<!-- <macros>
  <macro name="bullet_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_macro" class="bullet">
    <component ref="bullet_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" />
    <properties>
      <bullet speed="1229" lifetime="3.3" amount="1" barrelamount="1" icon="weapon_plasma_mk1" timediff="0" angle="0" maxhits="1" ricochet="0" scale="0" attach="0" />
      <heat value="5122" />
      <reload time="4" />
      <damage value="1024" repair="0" />
      <effects>
        <impact ref="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" inside="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_inside" />
        <bigobjectimpact ref="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_bigobject" inside="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_bigobject_inside" />
        <launch ref="muzzle_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" />
      </effects>
      <weapon system="weapon_standard" />
    </properties>
  </macro>
</macros> -->

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Legendary Waffle:

I have no idea how to host my changes into a workshop mod also it would be better if you hosted since most of the changes are yours. All I did was take the base values from "speed" and "lifetime" found the commented XML in each of the macro files you made then doubled each in the "diff".


So for example this is one file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<diff>
  <replace sel="//bullet/@speed">2458</replace>  
  <replace sel="//bullet/@lifetime">6.6</replace>
</diff>

<!-- <macros>
  <macro name="bullet_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_macro" class="bullet">
    <component ref="bullet_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" />
    <properties>
      <bullet speed="1229" lifetime="3.3" amount="1" barrelamount="1" icon="weapon_plasma_mk1" timediff="0" angle="0" maxhits="1" ricochet="0" scale="0" attach="0" />
      <heat value="5122" />
      <reload time="4" />
      <damage value="1024" repair="0" />
      <effects>
        <impact ref="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" inside="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_inside" />
        <bigobjectimpact ref="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_bigobject" inside="impact_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1_bigobject_inside" />
        <launch ref="muzzle_gen_s_plasma_01_mk1" />
      </effects>
      <weapon system="weapon_standard" />
    </properties>
  </macro>
</macros> -->

You doubled them? They they should go even further and be faster. You should reduce the values.

[Legendary Waffle]

I mean i doubled the vanilla values not yours. Sorry for not being clear.

In your mod, you actually had that values at 4x values so just reduced them to 2x

[Legendary Waffle]

I actually just went ahead and published the mod here.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150854441

Just let me know if you want to delete the mod NoDMoD.

[NoDMoD]

Originally posted by Legendary Waffle:

I actually just went ahead and published the mod here.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3150854441

Just let me know if you want to delete the mod NoDMoD.

I have been busy, so I did not have time to go through it. You are welcome to leave it uploaded.

But I would I add into the descritpion, what specifically is different about your mod.

Have you tested it yet?

What's the range of plasmas now?

[Legendary Waffle]

Tested and works as expected on my end. Please let me know if you find any issues in the mod. I will be happy to update. Also cleaned up the description on the workshop page.

[Legendary Waffle]

For anyone that had issue with my version of the mod. I just uploaded an update that should take care of the issue. Please let me know if you encounter any problems with it.

[Sticky Wicket]

I'm still barely testing NoDMod's workshop mod, but it's good to know there is another alternative.

I think it would be good to leave them both up and let people decide what they want.

Thank you to both of you NoDMod and Legendary Waffle for making the game's combat more manageable and fun again.