BUFF MEDIUM SHIPS....

[Fast]

that is all.

[GONDAL]

M ships are only bad when in system... 3 katanas piloted by 1 star noob pilots can kill a K OOS. But the moment they go in focus they explode like balloons

[Humble]

I do agree that frigates should be better, and should be buff, but not other gunship and corvettes

It's should be something like larger, more powerful weapon/shield, like this one, Battleship>Carrier>Cruiser (Not in the game)>Destroyer>frigates>covrvettes>gunship>heavy Fighter/bomber>normal fighter/bomber>light fighter/scout,

Sadly, I do had issues with frigate/corvette/gunship is so similar, in some case Corvette is better than frigate, that is not correctly, that is not right, other than speeds. it's should be frigate better than corvette in almost every way, while corvettle should be better than gunship in every way other than turret gun maybe, at least stats of ship other than speed, that is.
Ah well.

[Tiberius]

Postat inițial de Humble:

I do agree that frigates should be better, and should be buff, but not other gunship and corvettes

It's should be something like larger, more powerful weapon/shield, like this one, Battleship>Carrier>Destroyer>frigates>covrvettes>gunship>heavy Fighter/bomber>normal fighter/bomber>light fighter/scout,

Sadly, I do had issues with frigate/corvette/gunship is so similar, in some case Corvette is better than frigate, that is not correctly, that is not right, other than speeds. it's should be frigate better than corvette in almost every way, while corvettle should be better than gunship in every way other than turret gun maybe, at least stats of ship other than speed, that is.
Ah well.

Frigates just need access to missile turret

[Humble]

I forgot to add Cruiser but there is no cruiser in this game (I think it's go belong to "L", not XL, it's not larger than carrier/battleship but larger than destroyer.

Missile Cruiser!

Postat inițial de Tiberius:

Postat inițial de Humble:

I do agree that frigates should be better, and should be buff, but not other gunship and corvettes

It's should be something like larger, more powerful weapon/shield, like this one, Battleship>Carrier>Destroyer>frigates>covrvettes>gunship>heavy Fighter/bomber>normal fighter/bomber>light fighter/scout,

Sadly, I do had issues with frigate/corvette/gunship is so similar, in some case Corvette is better than frigate, that is not correctly, that is not right, other than speeds. it's should be frigate better than corvette in almost every way, while corvettle should be better than gunship in every way other than turret gun maybe, at least stats of ship other than speed, that is.
Ah well.

Frigates just need access to missile turret

Yes, I agree, and frigates should add more turret and more Shield/hull buff but maybe not speed, Corvette is fine (Idea it's faster than frigates but not more firepower/shield than frigates, gunship, I'm not sure.

[Fast]

Mediums needs a change to shields, and frigates and gunboats could do with more firepower in general, whether thats more drones, turrets or a boost to medium turret damage, rotation speed, and also i think it would be important to improve the projectile speed of all turrets not just mediums, im sick of using flak, or beams(plasma for L ofc). Because everything else is too slow.

I would be inclined to increase all turret projectile speed by 1.3-1.5x and touch up the damage output by around 1.15x
This would still keep them balanced and weaker than primary weapons, but improve the usability of turrets and arguably buff Mediums indirectly by quite a bit. Potentially moreso than carriers, battleships or destroyers. Because those ships can rely on simply having enough turrets to not care about how terrible they actually are.
Mediums however especially the gunboats and frigates are almost entirely reliant on turrets and only a small amount.

[Rinshun]

Lol... from what I saw, balancing isn't the selling point of this game: crew takes millions of trips to reach 5 stars...

Just get the VRO mod. It's supposed to rebalance all the ships, not only medium ones.

[6000 Chipmunks]

Having played X3 to DEATH, and once modded, loved it, let me say what I think, of the medium ships, and ALL of the ships I've purchased so far, in X3.2 Beta. (X4).

I'm blown away by the scale of these ships as I walk to and around them. Just mind-blowing.

However; when using them, I'm left feeling like I'm flying around in a poorly designed paper airplane.

They seem to be shooting spit-wads, they maneuver like sailing ships (if large enough to do anything), and NONE of the weaponry seems legit, realistic, or futuristic.

This is a space game with time-travel/warp gates, right?

Yet, my massive medium ship maneuvers like a drunken asteroid, is larger than a football stadium, and can only carry 3 crew and a lunch-box!

The immersion factor is non-existent.

Is it fun(in some weird way)? Yes.
Is Chess fun too...Yes.
At least Chess makes sense.
Just my opinion.

[Vladolf Putler]

yep, Ms sux hard, I just have few as looters, the only good M is corvette, like dragon raider, I use them as patrol main patrol crafts, with split mk4 engines and 1 as my personal taxi

[Wraith]

Postat inițial de Rinshun:

Lol... from what I saw, balancing isn't the selling point of this game: crew takes millions of trips to reach 5 stars...

Just get the VRO mod. It's supposed to rebalance all the ships, not only medium ones.

Your doing something wrong if crew aren’t leveling fast
It very easy to get a crew of 3 star just through combat

A builder doing some building can give you 4 star to 5 star crew in no time as well

[SpaceToast]

M ships need stronger turrets, not just missiles. M turrets across the board are weaker than MK1 S guns.....this is sad. M ships also shouldnt have a recharge delay, allowing them to tank more shots and stay alive longer.

[ಠ_ಠ Exil]

Postat inițial de Bozz 💀:

He is not wrong, M ships get killed very easy in this game, specially in big battles.

I will disagree with this. After several battles (both small and large) I realized that they survive quite well if their fleet composition is correct. For example, having a fleet with M leader and S interceptors (+ defenders) really helps. In large battles I noticed the M surviving quite a lot despite being swarmed, both against Xenon and VIG (sadly can't do other large scale battles as everyone but TER seems to be on their knees atm due to Xenon aggression).

In my current save, I ended up fighting VIG (due to story mission) and to enter their systems I had to fight at the gate against two 70+ strong fleets. I fought all my battles in system so I'm not sure how fleet composition works OOS but for IS I did notice this:

First major battle, 10 M ships, no fleet composition for them - all but 2 die. (my swarm of 100 S overwhelmed VIG)

Second major battle, 15 M ships, 5 with no fleet composition and 10 set to Intercept with 10S for intercept for each M. The 5 with no backup died and just 1 of the 10 died while fighting at the gate. Mind you for the second battle I also lost a destroyer that VIG torpedo'ed into oblivion during the first 2 minutes of the battle, so although I had them outnumbered they still had enough firepower to do serious damage.

[EvilVictor]

Postat inițial de ಠ_ಠ Exil:

Second major battle, 15 M ships, 5 with no fleet composition and 10 set to Intercept with 10S for intercept for each M. The 5 with no backup died and just 1 of the 10 died while fighting at the gate. Mind you for the second battle I also lost a destroyer that VIG torpedo'ed into oblivion during the first 2 minutes of the battle, so although I had them outnumbered they still had enough firepower to do serious damage.

I agree 100%

As I was going through this thread I kept saying to myself, "am I the only one who puts M ships on Intercept so they completely dominate?" I'm glad I'm not.

M class ships on intercept will work very well, you just have to understand what intercept means to Egosoft verses what defend means to Egosoft.

Intercept is probably the best default rule to leave most of your groups on. You can change the role of each group on-the-fly but that will keep them from directly engaging stations, destroyers, battleships, etc. And, unlike "defend" they'll actually do a decent job of sticking close to the commander. If you really want them to be crazy good give each corvette that is intercepting for the commander two fighters assigned to attack with them.

I suspect many players put them on the defend role and then they get demolished when they run off after every random ship that shot at the commander.

[pwrOff]

Postat inițial de Bozz 💀:

He is not wrong, M ships get killed very easy in this game, specially in big battles.

In player hands, M ships are OP and the best ship in the game, I personally love the Katana and the Dragon.

But the AI doesn't know how to use them in combat and they become useless except maybe in some very specialised situations.

also they cost a lot of money, so it's way more intelligent to use one more destroyer than add a few M class ships in a fleet.

I always use a bunch of cerberus M as starter fleet equip with plasma. 10 of them will shred through K's without a scratch, 14 will get through an I. No small ship fleet will get close to them.

[Fast]

Postat inițial de pwrOff:

Postat inițial de Bozz 💀:

He is not wrong, M ships get killed very easy in this game, specially in big battles.

In player hands, M ships are OP and the best ship in the game, I personally love the Katana and the Dragon.

But the AI doesn't know how to use them in combat and they become useless except maybe in some very specialised situations.

also they cost a lot of money, so it's way more intelligent to use one more destroyer than add a few M class ships in a fleet.

I always use a bunch of cerberus M as starter fleet equip with plasma. 10 of them will shred through K's without a scratch, 14 will get through an I. No small ship fleet will get close to them.

14 blast mortar shih kill K

27 blast mortar shih kill I

Much cheaper in production cost

[pwrOff]

Postat inițial de EvilVictor:

Postat inițial de ಠ_ಠ Exil:

Second major battle, 15 M ships, 5 with no fleet composition and 10 set to Intercept with 10S for intercept for each M. The 5 with no backup died and just 1 of the 10 died while fighting at the gate. Mind you for the second battle I also lost a destroyer that VIG torpedo'ed into oblivion during the first 2 minutes of the battle, so although I had them outnumbered they still had enough firepower to do serious damage.

I agree 100%

As I was going through this thread I kept saying to myself, "am I the only one who puts M ships on Intercept so they completely dominate?" I'm glad I'm not.

M class ships on intercept will work very well, you just have to understand what intercept means to Egosoft verses what defend means to Egosoft.

Intercept is probably the best default rule to leave most of your groups on. You can change the role of each group on-the-fly but that will keep them from directly engaging stations, destroyers, battleships, etc. And, unlike "defend" they'll actually do a decent job of sticking close to the commander. If you really want them to be crazy good give each corvette that is intercepting for the commander two fighters assigned to attack with them.

I suspect many players put them on the defend role and then they get demolished when they run off after every random ship that shot at the commander.

All in all, the best in a big fight if you don't have enough numbers is to disband and attack manually, with the exception of bombardiers, bombardment role will keep them out of range for dmg. Once you get the numbers, attack or intercept will work but sometimes they "wander" if left in intercept and will get destroyed. I prefer attack (I separate them into small sub groups so they attack multiple targets).