Mining: annoying game mechanic

[Sticky Wicket]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2967547969

Ships just ignore resource probes, even when they are highlighting high concentrations.

It begs the question: is there actually a point to (wasting time) scanning sectors and dropping resource probes if your mining ships are just going to ignore them?

[McMuffin]

Maybe that spot is better?
Don´t know honestly since I don´t bother placing any probes but I noticed that my station miners started spread out in the system they are mining and after the manager got 2+ stars they concentrated almost exclusively around a certain area.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by McMuffin:

Maybe that spot is better?
Don´t know honestly since I don´t bother placing any probes but I noticed that my station miners started spread out in the system they are mining and after the manager got 2+ stars they concentrated almost exclusively around a certain area.

What you are saying then is there is no point to buying resource probes.

[Bozz 💀]

It gives them a general indication on the yields, but as they travel they can find better spots to mine and so they will go there. they kinda have their own knowledge on better yields around.

If they only mined around your ressource prob that area would be completelly depleted after some time and they would stay idle until the ressources reset in the area.

If you really want your miners to mine in a specific area you can use the Repeat Order command.

[6000 Chipmunks]

From what I've been told, the probes only increase the mining speed in their vicinity..along with indicating what is actually there.
So, it was suggested to me, that I hold off on placing probes until I see where my miners have decided to mine and then just put one there, to help them be faster at it.
I have no way or patience, to figure out whether this actually works or not, but, as the OP has stated, the other approach doesn't seem to work, so...?

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by 6000 Chipmunks:

From what I've been told, the probes only increase the mining speed in their vicinity..along with indicating what is actually there.
So, it was suggested to me, that I hold off on placing probes until I see where my miners have decided to mine and then just put one there, to help them be faster at it.
I have no way or patience, to figure out whether this actually works or not, but, as the OP has stated, the other approach doesn't seem to work, so...?

I honestly think Mining needs an overhaul.

[6000 Chipmunks]

It seems to be a problem with the visuals of what it looks like is happening vs what in fact IS happening in the code of the game.

IE:The miners are doing their job fine(?) code-wise but, it appears that they are off sleeping in a corner or mining in a completely bonkers section of the map. This coupled with the fact that resources can get depleted temporarily, causing them to move to less advantageous looking spots.
So, it leaves the player thinking, "Is my resource probe correct, or has all the material indicated been removed at this time?"

It's a wonky disconnect from what the player experiences and what is actually going on in the code. A problem that has plagued this game for decades. ;)

And, then there are the just plain bugs that send your miner/trader to some distant galaxy to mine/transport stuff that could have easily been procured in their on neck of the woods.
This again, could be just wonky visuals, but usually has pretty devastating effect on said ships. ;)

[db48x]

Your resource probe reports finding that there is currently 0.13 methane per km³, with an expected maximum of 0.17. That means your miner has depleted that region slightly; it’s down to 75% of the maximum. No doubt he is moving to an area that hasn’t been depleted as much, or has a higher maximum. All resources are gradually replenished, so he’ll be back to mining that spot sooner or later.

There was also a recent post in the Egosoft forum where a developer stated that miners do seek out the best areas on their own, as well as deliberately spreading themselves away from other miners. He also stated that careful exploration can frequently reveal richer resource areas, and that placing a resource probe there will draw your miners to it (I assume that they could also stumble upon those areas by accident, but it seems unlikely).

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by 6000 Chipmunks:

It seems to be a problem with the visuals of what it looks like is happening vs what in fact IS happening in the code of the game.

IE:The miners are doing their job fine(?) code-wise but, it appears that they are off sleeping in a corner or mining in a completely bonkers section of the map. This coupled with the fact that resources can get depleted temporarily, causing them to move to less advantageous looking spots.
So, it leaves the player thinking, "Is my resource probe correct, or has all the material indicated been removed at this time?"

It's a wonky disconnect from what the player experiences and what is actually going on in the code. A problem that has plagued this game for decades. ;)

And, then there are the just plain bugs that send your miner/trader to some distant galaxy to mine/transport stuff that could have easily been procured in their on neck of the woods.
This again, could be just wonky visuals, but usually has pretty devastating effect on said ships. ;)

As a new player I agree with you; the way it's set up is very off-putting and *wonky* as you put it. Iv'e spent more time fiddling around, micromanaging and saving/loading (re: trying to get mining to satisfactorily function) than any other aspect of the game.

My new mining venture in Oort Cloud seems to be finally working, but it doesn't function in any kind of seemingly logical and/or immersive way. I can't say I understand why the developers have chosen to do this. Most resource-gathering and managing games usually have a tie in with whats happening to what you can see. I would argue that the wonkiness actually makes it very difficult to manage.

I really hope they change this because mining is obviously at the very core of the economical and industrial infrastructure of the X universe.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by db48x:

Your resource probe reports finding that there is currently 0.13 methane per km³, with an expected maximum of 0.17. That means your miner has depleted that region slightly; it’s down to 75% of the maximum. No doubt he is moving to an area that hasn’t been depleted as much, or has a higher maximum. All resources are gradually replenished, so he’ll be back to mining that spot sooner or later.

There was also a recent post in the Egosoft forum where a developer stated that miners do seek out the best areas on their own, as well as deliberately spreading themselves away from other miners. He also stated that careful exploration can frequently reveal richer resource areas, and that placing a resource probe there will draw your miners to it (I assume that they could also stumble upon those areas by accident, but it seems unlikely).

I'm mining Silicon (the mouse-hover over Methane is just an accident). I was illustrating that Silcon is in high quantities where my probes are. As far as Iv'e been checking my Miner hasn't gone anywhere near any of the 5 resource probes I put down at all. If my Miner pilot is able to find a high quantity somewhere else on their own then fair enough, that means why bother with probes at all?

[6000 Chipmunks]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

As a new player I agree with you; the way it's set up is very off-putting and *wonky* as you put it. Iv'e spent more time fiddling around, micromanaging and saving/loading (re: trying to get mining to satisfactorily function) than any other aspect of the game.

My new mining venture in Oort Cloud seems to be finally working, but it doesn't function in any kind of seemingly logical and/or immersive way. I can't say I understand why the developers have chosen to do this. Most resource-gathering and managing games usually have a tie in with whats happening to what you can see. I would argue that the wonkiness actually makes it very difficult to manage.

I really hope they change this because mining is obviously at the very core of the economical and industrial infrastructure of the X universe.

Well, I wish I could give you hope but, this mechanic, as well as transportation between OBVIOUS sites such as Gates, Highways, Stations etc..., has BEEN at the core of this entire series (X3-X4), but has NEVER gotten the attention it deserves or requires. Along with quite a few other aspects of the core game. Sorry.

On the bright side: If you are somewhat masochistic they are very fond of, and prompt at, making things more, and more frustratingly difficult for the player

[db48x]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

I'm mining Silicon (the mouse-hover over Methane is just an accident). I was illustrating that Silcon is in high quantities where my probes are. As far as Iv'e been checking my Miner hasn't gone anywhere near any of the 5 resource probes I put down at all. If my Miner pilot is able to find a high quantity somewhere else on their own then fair enough, that means why bother with probes at all?

Resource probes do provide a small bonus to mining speed (I’m not sure of the exact percentage) while the miner is near one. But mineral concentrations vary, so if your miner is always mining away from your probes maybe you should go place probes where they want to mine. Just be aware that there are multiple reasons for your miners to move around and that the game doesn’t tell you explicitly why the ship’s captain picked that specific location over others.

Maybe the game would be better if they did try to provide that information, or maybe it would make the AI seem dumber. We certainly know that the AI cannot be all that sophisticated; it is using heuristics to approximate reasonable behavior. I’m sure there is at least some randomness in there just so that you don’t get perfectly identical behavior from every miner in the sector.

[Bullpup]

The inconsistency of information and the inexplicable AI behaviour is a problem.

What upsets me the most is that while it seemed the system was held together with duct tape waiting for patches, the devs just whacked it with a massive nerf hammer a few years ago making it more important to try to figure it all out.

[db48x]

If you’ve been playing the game for “a few years” then you clearly don’t really care about the inconsistent presentation of information, the supposedly inexplicable AI behavior (which isn’t really all that complex, in the end), or the imagined nerfs. You’re just bellyaching to hear the sound of your own voice.

[Pandorian]

Originally posted by Bullpup:

The inconsistency of information and the inexplicable AI behaviour is a problem.

What upsets me the most is that while it seemed the system was held together with duct tape waiting for patches, the devs just whacked it with a massive nerf hammer a few years ago making it more important to try to figure it all out.

I really don't understand this argument that "mining was nerfed" that keeps showing up lately. Please explain to me exactly how mining was nerfed. Please provide the relevant links to the patch notes. I've played since 1.0 and I have no clue what people who say "mining was nerfed" are talking about.

[Bullpup]

Originally posted by Pandorian:

I really don't understand this argument that "mining was nerfed" that keeps showing up lately. Please explain to me exactly how mining was nerfed. Please provide the relevant links to the patch notes. I've played since 1.0 and I have no clue what people who say "mining was nerfed" are talking about.

Also a 1.0 player, vanilla. I had 5 megafactories in Nopileos in 2020, all with around 5 station miners each producing tons of wares to the point I was even considering a terraforming project.

Then Ego nerfed something hard to the extent that factories were just producing nothing, I was having trouble producing 20 S fighters for my raptor, and the only solution I could come up with was to set up mining stations 7-8 gates away, buy 40 L miners, have 30 of them mine for the outpost while the other 20 shuttled back and forth to my Nopileos factories. Then they started working again, although I had to adjust the mining miners because they were running dry, so they had to be directed to other spots.

This would have been a nice challenge if the information on resources wasn't contradictory and if AI didn't do all sorts of inexplicable things like go off to the middle of nowhere or to sectors where information said there was no resource of the type they were mining for.

When I read that this is what Ego did intentionally because the core players wanted more of a challenge I quit playing (because it was just killjoy nerf on top of killjoy nerf just to please the hundred or so 12h/day players that answered the survey, like the shipyard profits nerf or the pilot morale nerf).