Casino -- Why?!?

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

I'm guessing there are a number of Post regarding a Non-Functional Casino; but instead of adding my Rant to one of those... I want to create a whole new thread just to increase the number of... CASINO - WHY Threads!!!

Seriously.... why put in Time and Effort creating something that isn't going to be used?!? Not to mention; YOU KNOW people are going to want to go to the Casino and Gamble (It's Called Immersion); so you create the very thing you know people will want, and say: Hey Everyone... Look at what You Can't Have!!! Again... Why?!?

I don't agree with every decision EgoSoft makes, but hey... we're all individuals, so we're not always going to be in agreement; but this decisions makes ZERO sense. Why not build a Specialized Station that doesn't produce anything. Or a Ship designed to function as a Fleet Command in Battle, but can't be UnDocked. Oh wait... here's a great idea; Creating a system that taunts a Great Back Story... but don't create a Gate to that System; That'll be Fun!!!

Why? Why Create a Casino that's Non-Functional???

And Please Please Please... Don't Tell Me you're going to create a DLC that makes the Casino Functional, but that'll cost extra!!!

The Smart Decision would be Not Creating it At All --- Massively Disappointed!!! :(

[Donauwelle]

[PeaceMaker]

I'm sure it will be explained very soon, but I have been informed that, apparently, a sponsor of the game did NOT want any semblance of gambling at all, even if just game gambling. And so there it is.

I went to all the trouble to get to the space casino and cried when nothing actually worked. At first I thought my game was bugged until I found out! It really is like a kick in the teeth. What's the point having a Casino if you can't gamble a few virtual space credits?

[builder680]

From a practical point of view, people would just save scum their way to billions of credits unless you put in limits. Which would cause its own belly aching. It's probably best that it wasn't put in at all, I'd agree.

[eMYNOCK]

I will not go through this again.

The first half of PeaceMakers reply is the quick summary and i have marked it as answer.

Indepth details are to be found in the unholy other Casino Topics.

[The Raven]

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

I will not go through this again.

The first half of PeaceMakers reply is the quick summary and i have marked it as answer.

Indepth details are to be found in the unholy other Casino Topics.

Someone's got issues.

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

(...) I have been informed that, apparently, a sponsor of the game did NOT want any semblance of gambling at all, even if just game gambling. (...)

So this Sponsor is okay with Drugs, Alcohol, Piracy and Murder; but Legal Gambling Crosses the Line. Oh... and apparently they are Okay with Having a Casino IN The Game, so long as there is No actual Gambling taking place; You can look at people APPEARING to Gamble, but they are opposed to a Player Actually Gambling. I just love it when people shove their Personal Moral Standards down my throat.

Originally posted by builder680:

From a practical point of view, people would just save scum their way to billions of credits (...)

Right... Just like people run to Vegas and Atlantic City, and come home with Billions every day!!! If you could actually get rich in a Game's Casino, the problem isn't the Casino it's the Programming. Actual... Real Life... Real Time Odds are ALWAYS in the house's favor. Yes... you could win Millions (even Billions); but seriously... what are the Odds?

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

I will not go through this again.(...)

As long as there is a Non-Functional Casino this Topic is always going to come up. And other than "The Devs don't have the knowledge to actually create a gambling program" there really isn't a good reason to build a casino inside a game, and not have it function. Why even put the Casino in the game? Notice how no body complains about a Nascar Track with No Cars, or a Football Stadium with No Teams, or a Concert Hall with No Music?!? It's because they weren't put into the game; but a Non-Functional Casino was put into the game; and Apparently for No Reason What So Ever!!!

[eMYNOCK]

Forbidden by the prime Sponsor is a pretty valid reason.

I don't like it, you don't have to like it...
And its certainly bezter than the alternative... wich in this case would have been nothing at all.

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by Skorne Tet'Zu:

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

(...) I have been informed that, apparently, a sponsor of the game did NOT want any semblance of gambling at all, even if just game gambling. (...)

So this Sponsor is okay with Drugs, Alcohol, Piracy and Murder; but Legal Gambling Crosses the Line. Oh... and apparently they are Okay with Having a Casino IN The Game, so long as there is No actual Gambling taking place; You can look at people APPEARING to Gamble, but they are opposed to a Player Actually Gambling. I just love it when people shove their Personal Moral Standards down my throat.

Ya preaching to the choir, pal. I write a lot and sometimes I have to write stuff I don't personally agree with if it was REAL, but I'll write it for the FICTIONAL story. If I wrote someone being murdered does that mean I agree with murder? Of course not. But you bet if there's a casino in my story, the main character will probably gamble if that's in his character.

Maybe our sponsor will one day change his mind.

[eMYNOCK]

the german ministry of education? change?
its more likely that pigs will learn to fly.

[Donauwelle]

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

Maybe our sponsor will one day change his mind.

eMYNOCK once said the Sponsor was the BMBF (Bundesministerium für Bildung und Forschung) they dont change,
even tho i suspect he meant the BMWK (Bundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klima) as its the BMWK who gives out the so called :"Computerspiel Förderung" https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/computerspielefoerderung-des-bundes.html

IF it was the BMWK it run like this: (95% certain)

For this foundings you need to apply with.... essentially your "Project Plan".
Soooo Egosoft went to the BMWK (or used the link i just posted) and applyed with their ideas.
The BMWK doesnt care about FSK/USK, they found a lot of FSK 18 games aswell....
It was Egosoft who said "lets do it with FSK 12."

The BMWK then said: "OK, thats the plan, thats ok, heres your money..."

The FSK however said: "nono.... no gambling in FSK12" (took me 5 mins on google to find this out btw)

The BMWK said: "nono- you wanted it to pass FSK 12, thats what we founded you for"

So we ended up right here.

(if it wasnt the BMWK but actually the BMBF it might`ve run differently... but.... there is no gaming founding on the BMBF HP to find soooooo?!)

Think positively, next DLC wich is comming in March 2024 (Project X-24) gets arround 800.000€ from BMWK (yeah its the BMWK) and X-26 planned for Q1- 26 gets 1,97 Mio. €
Thats A: LOTS of German Tax money
AND B: It means there is a Project X-25 without foundings?
Maybe we see..... some.... Upgrades to old mechs like the Casino?
Worst case no DLC in 2025? Then maybe X5 in 26?
I mean 1.97 Mil Tax money, thats half a Bridge.... thats a lot of Cash

*hope*

[Skorne Tet'Zu]

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

Forbidden by the prime Sponsor is a pretty valid reason.(...)

There's a difference between VALID and GOOD. It's a Valid Reason for EgoSoft not to do it; but I'd like to know a GOOD Reason for the Prime Sponsor to have issue with it; especially if they are obviously okay with the all the Other Vices in the Game. Imagine a group of protesters standing in front of a Brothel, and demanding they stop serving Alcohol; That's Your Problem?!?

Don't get me wrong, I'm no longer Lashing out at EgoSoft; I do Get It; their hands are tied (though in that case I wouldn't have even bothered putting the Casino in the game; but that's just a choice); I just have issue with someone that picks and chooses which Sins are Okay, and which are Not; LSD should be Illegal, but Cocaine is Cool... how much sense does that make?!? So what... this person has a Gambling Problem, but doesn't have a problem with Armed Robbery; so they allow one, but not the other? It's just Wrong!!!

OH.... and I do Agree: I would rather have a Non-Functional Casino in X4 than not to have X4 :)

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by Donauwelle:

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

Maybe our sponsor will one day change his mind.

eMYNOCK once said the Sponsor was the BMBF (Bundesministerium für Bildung und Forschung) they dont change,
even tho i suspect he meant the BMWK (Bundesministerium für Wirtschaft und Klima) as its the BMWK who gives out the so called :"Computerspiel Förderung" https://www.bmwk.de/Redaktion/DE/Artikel/Wirtschaft/Games/computerspielefoerderung-des-bundes.html

IF it was the BMWK it run like this: (95% certain)

For this foundings you need to apply with.... essentially your "Project Plan".
Soooo Egosoft went to the BMWK (or used the link i just posted) and applyed with their ideas.
The BMWK doesnt care about FSK/USK, they found a lot of FSK 18 games aswell....
It was Egosoft who said "lets do it with FSK 12."

The BMWK then said: "OK, thats the plan, thats ok, heres your money..."

The FSK however said: "nono.... no gambling in FSK12" (took me 5 mins on google to find this out btw)

The BMWK said: "nono- you wanted it to pass FSK 12, thats what we founded you for"

So we ended up right here.

(if it wasnt the BMWK but actually the BMBF it might`ve run differently... but.... there is no gaming founding on the BMBF HP to find soooooo?!)

Think positively, next DLC wich is comming in March 2024 (Project X-24) gets arround 800.000€ from BMWK (yeah its the BMWK) and X-26 planned for Q1- 26 gets 1,97 Mio. €
Thats A: LOTS of German Tax money
AND B: It means there is a Project X-25 without foundings?
Maybe we see..... some.... Upgrades to old mechs like the Casino?
Worst case no DLC in 2025? Then maybe X5 in 26?
I mean 1.97 Mil Tax money, thats half a Bridge.... thats a lot of Cash

*hope*

Fascinating. I had no idea. Thankyou.

But this poses all kinds of questioins. Like what other things have they stipulated that we underlings must undego to play a game if something as simple as fake gambling isn't allowed? It's just a game, ok so they sponsored it, or is one of the sponsors, but we still PAID to have it. Where does the CONSUMER have a say?

Or is this like Communist Russia where everything must go through the 'glorious party system' before it's allowed to the people?
It's like going down a rabbit hole of big mummy interference.

[Donauwelle]

Originally posted by PeaceMaker:

Like what other things have they stipulated that we underlings must undego to play a game if something as simple as fake gambling isn't allowed? It's just a game, ok so they sponsored it, or is one of the sponsors, but we still PAID to have it. Where does the CONSUMER have a say?

Or is this like Communist Russia where everything must go through the 'glorious party system' before it's allowed to the people?
It's like going down a rabbit hole of big mummy interference.

Nah IF what i explained is true (wich is quite likely )
it would simply been Egosoft making a "FSK 12" note in their plan wich they send to BMWK and the FSK (Wich is actually a private organisation, kind of a councel of elder *coughcough* who ensure Childrens safety) said "The Act of DIRECT Gambling would be a clear FSK 18" then it was simply Ego not checking the FSK BEFORE applying for the founding.

FSK isnt some Communist masterplan, its just the german version of USK/PEGI....
Makes sure Kids dont watch Porn in the Inter... nvm....
No Blood and gore for kids and stuff....

FSK 18 simply means "no rules go nuts" as 18 is the German Adult age and Videogames / Gambling is basicly law-less wild-west in germany...
With one certain understandable ecception, beeing WW2 Related so doesnt apply here

FSK 12 is what X4 is atm.
Gambling is a clear 18 in germany.
(Direct Gambling as in Play poker, not lootboxes they are FSK 16 BTW as its "passive Gambling")

And if you send in your Foundings application its either THIS or nothing.
You dont change something later on in Germany. Even if its something as simple as making a 12 to a 18

[GIGAPintofWine]

its entertainment lol im not gonna go to a real life casino right after playing this game and blow my lifesavings.... hope some modder will fix this issue. cause i was excited when i heard about a casino :O

[PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by GigaPintofHell:

its entertainment lol im not gonna go to a real life casino right after playing this game and blow my lifesavings.... hope some modder will fix this issue. cause i was excited when i heard about a casino :O

And that's the problem with those kinds of people. They see everyone 'below' them as stupid and only THEY are able to control themselves, so they make the rules controlling everyone else from themselves.

How they see us:
"Have you ever met a commoner? They're raging barbarians just waiting to go mad if you even let them play a game where they might gamble!"

Although they'll say it nicer to our faces.

It's extremely patronising and annoying that they shove their distrust of the ordinary person into our games. It's literally a form of power abuse.

ok, I'm done ranting now. Sorry.