Joystick (Thrustmaster HOTAS) setup for a noob

[Waiter]

Hi!

Just starting out with X4 and trying to work out how to play it, SO, the background:

I have played the X3 games for many years and love them. For me, it has always felt better / more authentic to use a joystick for flight (especially in small ships/fighters) so I have been going back and forth between a single joystick (an old Saitek Cyborg 3D which I love) and the mouse control. Given the new first person elementts of X4, I am pretty sure I will continue that way since walking around with a joystick feels just as stupid as flying with a mouse.

Having said that, the problem I always had in X3 was fighting with a joystick, so although I used the joystick for navigational flight, I always reverted to makb when I got into a fight. I just felt that the aiming was so much easier that I kind of wondered why on earth I chould insist of controlling a futuristic space ship with neanderthal flight controls. I still really want that notion to be wrong.

I now have a Thrustmaster T16000m flight pack and am trying to set the game up using that. Not sure if I will use the pedals very much, but if I'm not horribly wrong, they have the same function as the floppy flaps (name?) in front of the thruster. All is installed and I managed to get past the initial spinning issue due to the joystick not being automatically set as primary joystick (...) but I still have a lot of issues and questions and I am hoping to get some help from you guys.

(I thought collecting my questions in here would be better than posting new threads for every new issue, but if that is not OK, just tell me.)

Any general setup tips for the controls are of course very welcome. I have istalled the Thrustmaster with the default settings so far and have a couple of issues.

Questions so far:

- What are your general thoughts on mouse vs joystick? Are my feelings from the old games just a question of not learning how to fly (fight) properly with a joystick?

- I have always used the r/l joystick for roll and the twist for yaw when flying in games but for some reason the default settings in X4 are the other way around. Is there a "right" way?

[Space Wolf Hudson]

X4 works really well with m+kb true. Played X3 way back then with m+kb only, and X4 too up until recently.

But just a few days ago I bought my first H.O.T.A.S ever to try it out for X4 (Logitech X52). Since I had no idea how to configure it myself I just loaded the default control scheme for the X52 provided by Egosoft.

And I gotta say after like a few hours getting used to it I do really like it, especially in fights. I think its just a matter of getting used to it.

[LeftPaw]

I have just received my new X52 hotas and could never go back to mouse and keyboard.
It's frigging excellent and can you believe more precise than the mouse. I get so many more kills than I ever did playing M&K.
I had a bit of trouble at first until I remembered I had to import the config.

[Waiter]

Originally posted by Space Wolf Hudson:

And I gotta say after like a few hours getting used to it I do really like it, especially in fights. I think its just a matter of getting used to it.

I have always prefered the feeling of flying with a joystick, the problem so far was always that aiming and targeting with the joystick felt so much more complicated and difficult that I had to set the diffeculty level to "dumb as a door nob" to be able to take out a ship even close to my own size. Even now it seems like the general advice is that you must have Aim Assist turned on if you use a joystick ... but I guess you could say that should be standard equipment in any modern or future space ship.

[LeftPaw]

I have a question. I set up one of my buttons to target what's under my cursor but instead it targets stuff around me. It's set to 'target object'. I was wondering if anyone has got it to target what is at the cursor and not everything else.

[Gregorovitch]

Originally posted by LeftPaw:

I have a question. I set up one of my buttons to target what's under my cursor but instead it targets stuff around me. It's set to 'target object'. I was wondering if anyone has got it to target what is at the cursor and not everything else.

IIRC there's one button that targets what you are currently looking at (i.e. what's directly in your cross hairs so to speak). There's others that cycle though targets, both enemy and neutral/friendly.

I can't remember what they are though now. I haven't started my new Kingdom's End game yet.

Originally posted by Waiter:

- I have always used the r/l joystick for roll and the twist for yaw when flying in games but for some reason the default settings in X4 are the other way around. Is there a "right" way?

I seem to recall that the way pitch and yaw work is dependent on the type of engine your ship has. Essentially with a combat engine the control is optimised for weaving about in dog fights and with the other two types it's optimised for comfortable travelling about. As I recall reversing pitch and yaw switched around as part of this.

[Blitz4]

my thoughts?

• TrackIR / VR / Triple Monitors - Start with TrackIR. Triple Monitors don't work in X4. VR is years away. Go with TrackIR for X4. It costs but you can use it in any flight sim. DCS World for example it's free and fun and almost requires you get TrackIR, trip monitors or VR. Works out of the box. If you play cloud gaming, then using the TIRMouse.exe that comes with it lets you move the mouse with your head. Still pondering how to make that work in game. If you use KB&M TrackIR isn't really required. For example bind space to look around, instead of Shift+Mouse3 and that works well to just hold in space and move the mouse. However you can't do that with HOTAS or HOSAS, speaking of..
  
• HOTAS or HOSAS? I'll share a video below showing what HOSAS is.
  
• X52 Pro - Is bad. It has those old sensors you find in ball mice. There's dust inside of the device and you have to regularly open it and clean off the sensors.
  
• Warthog - This is what I'd go for a flight sim. A game like ace combat, maybe not, but a flight sim yes. It doesn't have a twist so it expects you to use rudder pedals or HOSAS or shift states.
  
• TKL Keyboard - You may need one. Put your elbows at a 90 and have them touch your side. Now put your hands over your keyboard. If your hands are "over" your keyboard, you need a TKL keybaord. It'd go between the HOTAS or HOSAS devices, otherwise you'll be stretching to use the keyboard and you'll think how to put everything on the HOTAS/HOSAS and that's not what they're there for.
  
• Controllers are useful! Go play X:Rebirth with a flight stick, controller and kb&m. For me, the best experience was with a controller. Combine that with a TrackIR and that game next level.
  
• HOTAS in X3/X4 games. I'll let Quil18 provide his experience he mentions 90 seconds in, the 2nd vid below. It's not for everyone. Note he's not refusing to agreeing to use it, but more of a it didn't feel right as he learned the game, type of deal. That's where I am right now. My goal is to master the default controls, then switch to a controller/kb/m combo. Then switch to a stick/kb/m combo.
  
• Controller - Check out the XBox Elite 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pGkORJhwdY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dde0Ro1bsOY

[Blitz4]

Wanted to share something about shift states. Like that XBox Elite 2 adds 4 buttons and a lot more. But most don't know about Steam Input. Did you know you have hold a button under your left index to make the ABXY button pad work like a d-pad, and when you release it it goes back to ABXY? Steam Input is amazing and can do way more than just that. Steam Input is only for controllers. I'll share a vid below, it's 8 videos and not updates for the new Steam UI that just came out, but it'll show you what's possible if you want the full tutorial

Next is Joystick Gremlin. Ever heard of this guy? Think AutoHotkey or Steam Input, but for Flight Sticks. There's even a way for me to fix my crummy sensors in my x52 pro using joystick gremlin. will share that below as well.

I hope you kinda get why I'm more interested in learning the controls of the game then using a flight stick first. It's important. You need to know what's important. Testing on a simple controller will show you what you'll want out of a HOTAS / HOSAS as some have more or less buttons or features. Hope it helps.

"It's not about the car. It's about the way you driving it." - BInary Star - Indy 500



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD_ZkgK7A2w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6CFPW4go0M


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHv14f6s2pQ

[Blitz4]

What would a fun or extreme or immersive flight sim setup look like?

I ask this to put me in check. I want to have fun first and foremost. But would adding realism increase immersion and would that increase fun?

Like the guy said in the HOSAS video. He slowly learned to use a HOTAS for the game, but it took a while. Well is that fun? Then he jumped on HOSAS and bam it just clicked for that game.

The issue for me. See I love X4 but I have to admit the truth.

X4 is not a flight sim.

Elite Dangerous, that's a flight sim. Why?

X4 doesn't support Triple Monitors. You can't just mod that in the game, it's gotta be done right.

X4 doesn't support modern framerates. Meaning VR is out of the question entirely as you need 90fps for VR.

Those two issues means that no real flight sim player will ever consider X4 a flight sim.

Even if VR was supported, Nvidia stated VR isn't there yet. Not until we can do 90Hz dual 8K monitors, yes guaranteed 90Hz minimum fps, minimum! X4 is not a flight sim. X4 is a sim.

Keep yourself in check and admit that to not be disappointed. My strat above of working up towards the most fun & immersive control scheme for the game is what I'm doing, your journey maybe just as personal. Even the in-game x52 bindings just don't feel right to me. Heck I want to stream the map onto my tablet via Sim Dashboard, but can't. What am I talking about? This is something you can do in many real sims:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X67_eTXOyl0


Then you got what quil18 said, like if you don't consider X4 a flight sim, then you'll have more fun. Yes X4 has to be made different than what we'd expect it to be. I don't know why.. Then ask if it was what we expected, would we enjoy it..


Ok let's say X4 was a flight sim! Now we're talking!!
What are some of the craziest flight sim setups out there? What kind of crazy sims might crazy people make for X4?


DCS World. Argubally the best flight sim. You can use TrackIR, trip monitor, or VR. You can use VR and ineract with the controls in the cockpit, as accurate as they're allowed to make it. Cool, but what's next level? How about VR, in a real 3d-printed cockpit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_goqBNcTrE


What about a driving sim? AC/ACC. Argubully the best racing sim. What's a $100k setup look like?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qivr9YxJRi8&t=668s


Then you got the spinning around the air cockpits like it would in a real flight sim by nasa or approved by the fcc. I think these two vids show that more isn't always better. The racing sim. He even said too much motion took away from the fun. And the flight sim is using VR where the visuals aren't as good as you'd find with a triple monitor.

For X4. Try everything. Something will stick. Adaptive steering using a controller in X:Rebirth is fun to me. For me HOTAS doesn't work well in X-games, probably cause for me i'm always speeding up & slowing down. Stop & go. Maybe a HOSAS will be more fun.

[Waiter]

Originally posted by Blitz4:

my thoughts?

Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely try double sticks and see what it's like. Should be able to try it with my old Cyborg as it is reconfigurable into a left handed stick. I think my problem at the moment is that I am both L/R, U/D and Twist on the joystick to steer and it gets pretty difficult. It's great for just flying around but when it comes to aiming it gets way behind mouse control.