best anti-fighter turret?

[DrwHem]

so for awhile now i have been using a lot of argon flak turrets to counter swarms of fighters. but even when i have 3 or 4 destroyers in formation, it still takes a LOT of flak to kill fighters. ive also tried bolt throwers too and they are not much better.
anyone out there have any suggestions?

[StormhawkV]

For M turrets Argon Flak is already the best. Unfortunately there are no good anti-fighter turrets in X4. Egosoft couldn't be bothered to make unigue weapons. Turrets are just heavily nerfed versions of forward firing weapon systems. It's especially sad as X3 had an impressive selection of powerful anti-fighter options.

[Ryno]

Tracking missile turrets can do a good job as well as they can quickly overwhelm S sized fighters. But limited ammo is the drawback.

[DrwHem]

yea the few times i have tried missile turrets they just blow their load way too fast.

[Cellar_Cat]

I would really characterise M turrets as almost entirely defensive. They are too weak, and too short ranged to be efficient at killing anything in the quantities most ships have equipped. Flak does a good job of hurting an attacking fighter badly enough that it will eventually die on one of its attack runs, but that's about all.

If you actually want to equip ships to kill fighters, L beams, and TER L pulse do a pretty good job of it. Technically any L pulse looks good in stats but the Terran one seems to have a bigger projectile that hits things more easily. When I first used them I was quite surprised to see them sniping enemy fighters with what seemed like a long succession of lucky shots, but it seems they are really just better at it than commonwealth ones.

[Caedes91]

Argon Flak is already best as StormhawkV said. Egosoft was indeed really lazy with turrets and Ship-stats (especially s-and m-ship capacity on destroyers).

The factions M-turrets only differ in appearance, but stats are all copy paste.

Smart-missiles would have been a good option, but the destroyers missile capacities is just too low. Again great logic from Egosoft:
Cram 40 fighters into the hulls, which is impossible given the dimensions, but don't use that space for missiles. Too tedious to constantly rearm them. The AI won't do it on their own, so you have to send every ship manually around. Or you invest in a slow ass XL-Auxiliary-Ship to resupply the fleet. The slow destroyers dock on the slow XL-ship one by one
--> Just looks silly.
Would be much better if you could use small/medium traders or drones for reaming.

Even the supposedly tech-superior Terrans were gutted hard in terms of their weaponry.
Biggest offender is them missing any anti-capital-turrets and unique missiles from past games. Their other m-turrets are again just copy-pasted and therefore suck like the basegame turrets.

Bolt sucks hard as anti-fighter, but has an anti missile use. However destroyers have so few turret hardpoints, that it isn't worth sacrificing any slots. M-beams are bugged and for some reason cannot hit missiles, erasing the one niche, they may have filled. Therefore most useless turret ever. Only usable on an Raptor with its 100 turrets, but will lag your game as hell as the pretty lightshow will tank framerate.

Pulse is your only other option, if you roleplay as any faction other than Argon or Flak. But useless against anything bigger than S-ships.

Terran L-Beams are ok against fighters, but on all hardpoints of an Asgard. It's the only ship, where it is acceptable to sacrifice L-turret slots for them, because the Asgard can still resort to the main laser as anti capital. Otherwise, they too are a waste of turret slot on any other ship.

You see, the lack of turrets on all capital ships is an issue of this game, made by choice for stupid "balancing" reasons. Nobody sane in their heads would ever build capital ships in space with so few turrets.

This game heavily leans towards using fighter swarms against everything but stations.

[Daddy Shark]

TER beams actually aren't that bad. I kept Delilah's Swansong all beamed up for a long time and it worked out ok. Beams don't do much damage but they always hit.

[StormhawkV]

Originally posted by Caedes91:

Even the supposedly tech-superior Terrans were gutted hard in terms of their weaponry.
Biggest offender is them missing any anti-capital-turrets and unique missiles from past games.

There's a passage in the encyclopedia about how the Terrans adapted/copied Commonwealth weapon systems to make their own guns. I almost spilled my hot chocolate when I first read it. Why would the Terrans ever do this? They're literally the technologically more advanced civilisation. What the hell, Egosoft.

[powergfx]

Originally posted by Grumpy:

They could at least re-created Point Singularity Projector.

How about the more obvious one. Ever noticed that all the turrets are Mk1 versions, you know, like there are more advanced ones like Mk2 or Mk3. How about starting with giving us the higher tier ones. It really looks like an unfinished game mechanic.

[StormhawkV]

Originally posted by powergfx:

How about the more obvious one. Ever noticed that all the turrets are Mk1 versions, you know, like there are more advanced ones like Mk2 or Mk3. How about starting with giving us the higher tier ones. It really looks like an unfinished game mechanic.

I actually just wrote this into Egosoft's forum. Turrets are all named Mk1 but there are no Mk2 versions while all forward firing weapon have them. Same with combat engines for L/XL-ships.

[Cellar_Cat]

The variant system is pretty rubbish anyway IMO. Outside of the first few minutes of the game why ever use the cheaper versions? They're just worse and make the ship you're equipping worse at whatever it will be doing (or more likely to die doing it). I basically consider the cost of the maximum tier of module part of the standard ship cost. The only exception being L thrusters because they are bizarrely expensive, so for the first few days my traders and miners get the cheapest tier of them.

[Daddy Shark]

Originally posted by Cellar_Cat:

The variant system is pretty rubbish anyway IMO. Outside of the first few minutes of the game why ever use the cheaper versions? They're just worse and make the ship you're equipping worse at whatever it will be doing (or more likely to die doing it). I basically consider the cost of the maximum tier of module part of the standard ship cost. The only exception being L thrusters because they are bizarrely expensive, so for the first few days my traders and miners get the cheapest tier of them.

I agree with this. My favorite types of variant systems in games are where things are totally different. Like in the late 90's shooters your guns always had a primary fire with mouse 1 and a "secondary fire" with mouse 2. Your M2 could be thought of as a variant. It's not superior or better by default, but it depends on the situation. It's just a different use of the same idea.

Think of Unreal. The Flak Cannon is basically a shotgun when you hit M1. But when you hit M2 it lobs out a "grenade" that then explodes into shrapnel in all directions from wherever it hits. It's not that Variant 2 is always better than variant 1. . . they both have their uses and one is better than the other depending on what is going on.

[Auto]

Originally posted by StormhawkV:

For M turrets Argon Flak is already the best. Unfortunately there are no good anti-fighter turrets in X4. Egosoft couldn't be bothered to make unigue weapons. Turrets are just heavily nerfed versions of forward firing weapon systems. It's especially sad as X3 had an impressive selection of powerful anti-fighter options.

Furthering the point above rather than responding to it....


Yes....Argon flak, Argon because they have the fastest rotation speed which is the speed the turret can rotate, if its slow it cant keep up with the fighters. Flak has good bullet speed and ok range and being flak it has a spread. All this equates to you actually hitting the target some of the time. The only other weapon that hits the target more is laser but its weak, very weak.

And to further the point about weapons, X4 has a wide array of weapons but has managed to make the vast majority of them completely useless...which is quite an impressive feat in itself. Someone at Egosoft needs to sit down and look at the weapons and give each one a tactical advantage that is relevant, functional and usable. This would instantly create massive depth to the game in combat terms alone. And then it would be good if factions actually used the full variety of weapons available so you didnt know what you might face. Then it would mean that when arming vessels much more consideration would have to be taken when considering how to encounter the variety of offensive weapons it could face. Missiles...most the missiles are again useless, very few hit fighters and don't do enough damage, they arn't fast enough, have enough range or do enough damage. Dumbfire are capital killers but really should be removed and replaced with more well thought out missile systems. Also reload times, they need to be functional in a combat situation. Missiles need to be rehashed entirely. The best missiles I recall are the swarm and typhoon from previous games. Miissiles need speed, range and decent damage. There also needs to be a counter to them otherwise the winner is whoever has stacked the most missiles in the hull.

Its an area of the game which has been neglected...please Egosoft take note, you don't need to do that much and the combat element of the game could be transformed into something much more strategic, fulfilling and ultimately fun.

[D55]

The best Anti fighter turret is the ARG flak and i doubt we will get anything much better than that as a lot of people like to use S class ships for combat and it would destroy the game for those people.
If you want to get rid of a lot of fighters just lay laser towers in the combat area, it is possible to get too and take out a Xenon shipyard fully loaded with defence craft using only a rattlesnake and laser towers.
If anything needs adjusting or looking at its the anti missile options which are currently next to pointless

[StormhawkV]

I have no idea why people would use S-class ships for personal use. M-class ships are so much better when piloted by someone who's not a braindead AI. The turrets in X4 are a joke compared to previous games. I really hope 6.0 and the Boron DLC will change this.

[Wraith]

Originally posted by StormhawkV:

I have no idea why people would use S-class ships for personal use. M-class ships are so much better when piloted by someone who's not a braindead AI. The turrets in X4 are a joke compared to previous games. I really hope 6.0 and the Boron DLC will change this.

For me it because 99 percent of M ships fly like a whale.

I love the feel of being able to stop and change directions easy but the only M ship I personally like to fly and do this is the Falx which doesn’t really work when I’m not dedicated to the Terran