How many S combat ship to protect a M transport ship ?

[ED_Thrustmaster]

Hi,

I build 1 transport ship to recolt some materials to build my station. This one was destroyed by a faction... can I say that I'm "not friendly" with it (-20 :p ) in a 'safe' sector.

So I use smaller ship with a little cargo (1-2k) but with the research I think it's more difficult than a Medium Transport Ship (10k from ALI system) but I don't want to loose ships in a loop.

So, I build 4 small Fighters Ships (from PAR system) to protect it. Do you think it's enough ?

Thanks a lot.

[Bozz 💀]

in my opinion it's useless, you better try to get the ressources somewhere safe and blacklist the sectors where you loose your ships

If it's a faction then even if it's just a fighter, once your fighters will engage the other ships from that faction that a present in the sector might join the fight and you'll lose a lot more money then if you lost the M trader...

[Zalzany]

If they hate you, no nothing will really make it safe. And S are horrible in small groups as gaurds. Your better off replacing the M to a L class that can handle its own and dock up its own S fighter squardron as the non docked will end up behind the M or a mile ahead of it.

Or like Bozz said use black list system to tell it to stay the hell out of systems like that that are high risk. I had a few times where xenon pushed into Haktivohs choice or silent witness and I had to black list that area to keep all my ships out till I could help supply Argon enough mats to push them back out again, because it was too early game for me to do it myself

[Gregorovitch]

Escorting freighters is not necessary and an unnecessary expense and hassle in X4. One simply doesn't. There are two reasons for this mainly:

1. The most dangerous pirates in the game are the FAF Rattlesnakes and if one of your freighter gets caught by one of those it's toast anyway even if you've got a 50m Cr worth of destroyers trying to protecting it. This is because the pirates are technically neutral until they actually shoot and they can 1-shot freighters, especially M sized ones. It's better to send a proper battle fleet to hunt down and destroy any FAF Rattlesnakes on the prowl giving you problems.

2. If it gets caught by a pirate in an S or M class then it will simply escape by turning on it's TD and GTFOing - there is an order for that in global orders. This works about 95% of the time, which is why it's not worth the expense and hassle of assigning escorts to freighters.

You can technically equip your freighters with defence drones to increase the survival rate further against S and M pirates but in practice even that is more hassle and expense than it's worth.

[ScareCrow]

as i see it you have Two choices, blacklist the systems with enemy or eat humble pie and befriend them, sorry but in trading there is only one choice, be friendly and your venture will be profitable.. you cant expect to earn any profit from trade in enemy sectors.

[ED_Thrustmaster]

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

Actually I was in a TEL system.
The faction wasn't the Famous FAF Rattlesnakes only the HOLY... I don't know the exact name but it's something around the "holy".
It was a lonewolf (If I remember it was in the system where we build the station for the mission "the experience").

I was confident for my ship because I'm friend with TEL (and in their system...)
My orders about pirates is to escape :p I don't want to play with my ships.


I take your advices for good game evolution.


I relativize now...
I was wrong with my idea about Small Fighters.
Because as Zalzany said... my S ships aren't next to the ship (they stayed at some miles from the freighter). And of course there is a cost (and I need to survey my "fleet" sometimes repair...)


The fact was that I loose my freight ship... So as I was angry I follow the ennemy fighter (to destroy it) Because I was really next to my ship But the time it takes me to undock fly next to... I just arrive at the "explosion".

So I follow the ship... the 'guy' tries to escape in another system... But after a short fight... (or should I say a punishment) he abandonned his ship and of course I claim it (as paiment) :p
=> I think that to buy a L freighter is a good idea.
That let me free against the small/medium fighters. But in my first idea I didn't want to because the lower speed...
With all the stuff (turrets) we can put inside... there are a lot of opportunities.

I think that it will be difficult for me to be friendly with this faction because I receive a long mission against this faction. (sabotage/destruction/...) if I come at their houses "knock knock knock it's me don't you want to do some trade with me ?"
BUT I'll think about it

[ScareCrow]

negative 20 is not alot, its basicly 20 kills if you stick around their stations and kill their criminals and something to think about is that there is more benefits in remaining friendly to all faction, even the pirate faction the SCA can be very useful, afterall you allready have one enemy you cannot become friends with, the Xenon's and they are more than enough for you to handle at any one time, so I guess you allready know how I would deal with this :) anyway good luck in any way you choose to handle this :)

[Daddy Shark]

Originally posted by ED_Thrustmaster:

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

Actually I was in a TEL system.
The faction wasn't the Famous FAF Rattlesnakes only the HOLY... I don't know the exact name but it's something around the "holy".
It was a lonewolf (If I remember it was in the system where we build the station for the mission "the experience").

I was confident for my ship because I'm friend with TEL (and in their system...)
My orders about pirates is to escape :p I don't want to play with my ships.


I take your advices for good game evolution.


I relativize now...
I was wrong with my idea about Small Fighters.
Because as Zalzany said... my S ships aren't next to the ship (they stayed at some miles from the freighter). And of course there is a cost (and I need to survey my "fleet" sometimes repair...)


The fact was that I loose my freight ship... So as I was angry I follow the ennemy fighter (to destroy it) Because I was really next to my ship But the time it takes me to undock fly next to... I just arrive at the "explosion".

So I follow the ship... the 'guy' tries to escape in another system... But after a short fight... (or should I say a punishment) he abandonned his ship and of course I claim it (as paiment) :p
=> I think that to buy a L freighter is a good idea.
That let me free against the small/medium fighters. But in my first idea I didn't want to because the lower speed...
With all the stuff (turrets) we can put inside... there are a lot of opportunities.

I think that it will be difficult for me to be friendly with this faction because I receive a long mission against this faction. (sabotage/destruction/...) if I come at their houses "knock knock knock it's me don't you want to do some trade with me ?"
BUT I'll think about it

The thing about pirates that is very confusing is that they disguise themselves to appear as another faction. So even though they APPEAR to be PAR or TER or whatever, in reality they're SCA pirates pretending to be someone else.

So they can always sneak up close to your AI controlled ships no matter what as they appear friendly until they close the gap and say "drop your cargo". Then your fighters are just useless.

The only way to bust them out is to personally fly up next to the ship and use your shift+2 scanner on their ship. That will force them to appear as who they really are.

[BurlsoL]

This is one of the reasons why you prioritize shields and engines on cargo ships. Set the default orders for pirates to ignore. Most M class ships with Mk2 travel drives will make a jump or a station before any L class pirate gets to them.

In sectors where you have a large amount of traffic and low system security, it is a good idea to have a handful of fighters either set to protect gate areas, or to patrol the system. Although this isn't a sure thing, it does help create a network where something other than the trader will engage the pirate ship when it goes hostile from being ignored.

Doing regular, at a glance, sweeps of sectors looking for ships that have a sword icon by them, and have names that don't match the right faction can also help keep pirate traffic low.

Using Small Traders with decently fast engines also works well since it adds more traffic to those systems. Kestrel Sentinel has almost as much cargo space as Callisto, but twice the speed, so works well for trading and build storage despite being a scout ship. More ships trading means that pirates are less likely to target the important ones that can't just get away.

[ScareCrow]

Originally posted by Daddy Shark:

Originally posted by ED_Thrustmaster:

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

Actually I was in a TEL system.
The faction wasn't the Famous FAF Rattlesnakes only the HOLY... I don't know the exact name but it's something around the "holy".
It was a lonewolf (If I remember it was in the system where we build the station for the mission "the experience").

I was confident for my ship because I'm friend with TEL (and in their system...)
My orders about pirates is to escape :p I don't want to play with my ships.


I take your advices for good game evolution.


I relativize now...
I was wrong with my idea about Small Fighters.
Because as Zalzany said... my S ships aren't next to the ship (they stayed at some miles from the freighter). And of course there is a cost (and I need to survey my "fleet" sometimes repair...)


The fact was that I loose my freight ship... So as I was angry I follow the ennemy fighter (to destroy it) Because I was really next to my ship But the time it takes me to undock fly next to... I just arrive at the "explosion".

So I follow the ship... the 'guy' tries to escape in another system... But after a short fight... (or should I say a punishment) he abandonned his ship and of course I claim it (as paiment) :p
=> I think that to buy a L freighter is a good idea.
That let me free against the small/medium fighters. But in my first idea I didn't want to because the lower speed...
With all the stuff (turrets) we can put inside... there are a lot of opportunities.

I think that it will be difficult for me to be friendly with this faction because I receive a long mission against this faction. (sabotage/destruction/...) if I come at their houses "knock knock knock it's me don't you want to do some trade with me ?"
BUT I'll think about it

The thing about pirates that is very confusing is that they disguise themselves to appear as another faction. So even though they APPEAR to be PAR or TER or whatever, in reality they're SCA pirates pretending to be someone else.

So they can always sneak up close to your AI controlled ships no matter what as they appear friendly until they close the gap and say "drop your cargo". Then your fighters are just useless.

The only way to bust them out is to personally fly up next to the ship and use your shift+2 scanner on their ship. That will force them to appear as who they really are.

You got trouble reading? the OP never mentioned pirates, read the first post :)

[ScareCrow]

Originally posted by BurlsoL:

This is one of the reasons why you prioritize shields and engines on cargo ships. Set the default orders for pirates to ignore. Most M class ships with Mk2 travel drives will make a jump or a station before any L class pirate gets to them.

In sectors where you have a large amount of traffic and low system security, it is a good idea to have a handful of fighters either set to protect gate areas, or to patrol the system. Although this isn't a sure thing, it does help create a network where something other than the trader will engage the pirate ship when it goes hostile from being ignored.

Doing regular, at a glance, sweeps of sectors looking for ships that have a sword icon by them, and have names that don't match the right faction can also help keep pirate traffic low.

Using Small Traders with decently fast engines also works well since it adds more traffic to those systems. Kestrel Sentinel has almost as much cargo space as Callisto, but twice the speed, so works well for trading and build storage despite being a scout ship. More ships trading means that pirates are less likely to target the important ones that can't just get away.

read OP's original post before posting what you think this thread is about :)

[Wraith]

just so you know OP
-20 is shoot on sight civilian assets included

and the Holy order of Pontifex (who I'm thinking you are at war with) are enemy with the Godrealm sectors which seem to be the area your operating in.

So they can just enter godrealm space and shoot whatever they don't like.
Which with your reputation includes your trader.

even bigger oof for you is HOP like to use alot of destroyers which mean escort duty with fighters is a no go.

[BurlsoL]

Originally posted by ScareCrow:

Originally posted by BurlsoL:

This is one of the reasons why you prioritize shields and engines on cargo ships. Set the default orders for pirates to ignore. Most M class ships with Mk2 travel drives will make a jump or a station before any L class pirate gets to them.

In sectors where you have a large amount of traffic and low system security, it is a good idea to have a handful of fighters either set to protect gate areas, or to patrol the system. Although this isn't a sure thing, it does help create a network where something other than the trader will engage the pirate ship when it goes hostile from being ignored.

Doing regular, at a glance, sweeps of sectors looking for ships that have a sword icon by them, and have names that don't match the right faction can also help keep pirate traffic low.

Using Small Traders with decently fast engines also works well since it adds more traffic to those systems. Kestrel Sentinel has almost as much cargo space as Callisto, but twice the speed, so works well for trading and build storage despite being a scout ship. More ships trading means that pirates are less likely to target the important ones that can't just get away.

read OP's original post before posting what you think this thread is about :)

OP was talking about losing ships because it ran into some hostile ships. OP does not specify what faction killed his traders. OP was wanting to know the solution to how to protect his cargo ships.


Engines and shields mean you outrun most fighters.

Pirates are a frequent problem in most systems, so are also a concern regardless what faction might have initially killed your cargo ship. Due to the way pirates cloak faction, it is easy to mistake a pirate killing your ship as one belonging to another faction.

More ships, small ships, means that anything attacking your ships has to deal with more targets. Using scout ships for trading takes advantage of faster speeds where very few things can catch up. If you have something killing your traders or you have to pass through hostile areas, this is usually the best way to go.

I didn't say anything about escorts because, frankly, using escorts for cargo ships when you have a faction somewhat hostile to you is about the dumbest thing you can do unless you want that to be a -30 reputation very quickly. Will also make the freighter occasionally stop and wait for escorts, making it more likely to be attacked. And naturally escorts don't travel at a reliable speed, so will often be attacked themselves while the thing they're escorting is in another system. But something to this effect was already mentioned.

[ScareCrow]

Originally posted by ED_Thrustmaster:

Thanks a lot for all your answers.

Actually I was in a TEL system.
The faction wasn't the Famous FAF Rattlesnakes only the HOLY... I don't know the exact name but it's something around the "holy".
It was a lonewolf (If I remember it was in the system where we build the station for the mission "the experience").

I was confident for my ship because I'm friend with TEL (and in their system...)
My orders about pirates is to escape :p I don't want to play with my ships.


I take your advices for good game evolution.


I relativize now...
I was wrong with my idea about Small Fighters.
Because as Zalzany said... my S ships aren't next to the ship (they stayed at some miles from the freighter). And of course there is a cost (and I need to survey my "fleet" sometimes repair...)


The fact was that I loose my freight ship... So as I was angry I follow the ennemy fighter (to destroy it) Because I was really next to my ship But the time it takes me to undock fly next to... I just arrive at the "explosion".

So I follow the ship... the 'guy' tries to escape in another system... But after a short fight... (or should I say a punishment) he abandonned his ship and of course I claim it (as paiment) :p
=> I think that to buy a L freighter is a good idea.
That let me free against the small/medium fighters. But in my first idea I didn't want to because the lower speed...
With all the stuff (turrets) we can put inside... there are a lot of opportunities.

I think that it will be difficult for me to be friendly with this faction because I receive a long mission against this faction. (sabotage/destruction/...) if I come at their houses "knock knock knock it's me don't you want to do some trade with me ?"
BUT I'll think about it

Originally posted by BurlsoL:

Originally posted by ScareCrow:

read OP's original post before posting what you think this thread is about :)

OP was talking about losing ships because it ran into some hostile ships. OP does not specify what faction killed his traders. OP was wanting to know the solution to how to protect his cargo ships.


Engines and shields mean you outrun most fighters.

Pirates are a frequent problem in most systems, so are also a concern regardless what faction might have initially killed your cargo ship. Due to the way pirates cloak faction, it is easy to mistake a pirate killing your ship as one belonging to another faction.

More ships, small ships, means that anything attacking your ships has to deal with more targets. Using scout ships for trading takes advantage of faster speeds where very few things can catch up. If you have something killing your traders or you have to pass through hostile areas, this is usually the best way to go.

I didn't say anything about escorts because, frankly, using escorts for cargo ships when you have a faction somewhat hostile to you is about the dumbest thing you can do unless you want that to be a -30 reputation very quickly. Will also make the freighter occasionally stop and wait for escorts, making it more likely to be attacked. And naturally escorts don't travel at a reliable speed, so will often be attacked themselves while the thing they're escorting is in another system. But something to this effect was already mentioned.

He does specify here the faction is the "Holy ...." and using some deduction skills I think it means Holy order of pontifex... so once again I suggest you read before posting :)

also you should know that pirates wont pose such a threat as he is describing, so this indicates that the threat he is talking about is a faction of formidable force

[Zalzany]

He said "holy" something, That is HOP, pirates lose their fake transponder once they do a shake down request. Once they demand your cargo, they are then flagged SCA, and turn red so your pilots know its a bad guy now, also you would see its SCA attacking it. Way too much time wasted on that I hunt pirates, you see them yes hiding all the time but second they do their shake downs they convert to their true pirate faction in their name in game. Its why I just set up global alerts so when oen does a shake down in my satelite network or close enough on of my ships sees it, it will tell me there is pirate, and what sector it was seen.

Also he mentioned -20 rep, like others said -20 means HOP would attack civilian ships, and they do got to war with PAR, and ANT since minute one, so you can see them in border sectors of HOP, hell I seen them take out 3 stations in Second Contact in a row before I got my first station module in HQ on a brand new new budgted custom start, on my way to HQ from Argon Prime to explore Grand exchange, ended up distracted spent half an hour just picking up secure containers, space fly eggs, and upgrade parts from all the wreckage from HOP and ANT fighting in that sector lol

So what thye need to do, is make nice with HOP by killing criminasl not sue if that works at -20 but its still dangours as they will atack everything of theirs on sight, or they have to avoid all border sectors and help ANT, ARG, AND PAR kill HOP becuase there is 2 sectors with a border with in 3 gates of HQ you gonna black list them from all trafic other wise and have to take longer routes threw TEL sectors to venture out into the rest of the galaxy.

[ScareCrow]

Just wanted to make it perfectly clear that repairing a negative 20 reputation with the HOP is extremely easy to do, simply destroy criminal trafic around their stations, fly from station to station dont sit and wait for them to appear, that will take too long time