Salvage in X4 before Star Citizen

[Schutzengel]

Star Citizen:
400.000.000 USD
no Salvage

X4:
less than 1/10th
Salvage

[lnomsim]

Wraith님이 먼저 게시:

I'm mostly surprised about SC are still thinking about adding more features.

You would think they would double down on actually finishing the game then adding features as it goes because it gonna be a multiplayer game.

It like feature creep at this point.

That's the thing, they can't really 'finish' the game without adding features. because otherwise it wouldn't be finished.

The stone goals are far from being finished.
If I'm not mistaken, they planned around 52 handmade systems (there is only one, and it was 'finished' less than one year ago.)

They are just integrating medic gameplay, like this post is saying, salvage is not there yet, even though the first salvage ship (which is its only role, so pretty useless right now.) was released two or three years ago.

huge container ships are planned for release 'soon', but containers aren't in the game yet.

That's another thing that makes X and SC not comparable. X has given access to the cockpit, for now, and some other rooms in some ships.

SC gives access to 'all' the ship interior, with a physical cargo hold. When you buy ware, the crates are inside the ship. You can store your weapons, place your teddy bear on your bed (yes, not the most useful feature, but still)

So, hard to finish the game without adding anything.

I'm not defending the game, by the way, I personally think they should focus on game stability and fixing bugs and issues before adding new content.

Like how X4 should fix mining and random global economy crash before adding new content too.

[Wraith]

lnomsim님이 먼저 게시:

That's the thing, they can't really 'finish' the game without adding features. because otherwise it wouldn't be finished.

Adding Features isn't the issue.
It adding more features on top of features that not even finish yet that is the issue which is happening consistently throughout it cycle.

They clearly are spreading themselves and becoming more and more ambitious with the game.
I mean seriously they wanted to add planetary features at a time where their space feature were not even done yet.
I just saying they could have focused finished the space part of the game then add the planetary feature or whatever ambitious thing they have going for it.

[eMYNOCK]

Wraith님이 먼저 게시:

lnomsim님이 먼저 게시:

That's the thing, they can't really 'finish' the game without adding features. because otherwise it wouldn't be finished.

Adding Features isn't the issue.
It adding more features on top of features that not even finish yet that is the issue which is happening consistently throughout it cycle.

They clearly are spreading themselves and becoming more and more ambitious with the game.
I mean seriously they wanted to add planetary features at a time where their space feature were not even done yet.
I just saying they could have focused finished the space part of the game then add the planetary feature or whatever ambitious thing they have going for it.

You more or less said that they are building Roofs and Walls without a (pun intended) Foundation.

Correct me if i'm wrong... and thankfully i'm still just the Janitor... so... as long as we all discuss peacefull in here its fine.

[lnomsim]

@Wraith
Don't just quote part of what I said.

When you buy the game (which is not buying the game by the way), they have milestones, so basically, imagine you are buying a car and the car seller is telling you that if enough people buy the car and put enough money, everyone will have ABS, GPS, air conditioner, it can float in water and even fly!

And then, even though enough people bought the car and they collected way more money they tell you. So..; we had a hard time making the car fly or float, so we decided to release it without brakes, but don't worry, you won't get into an accident because it doesn't t have wheels or an engine anyway.

The GPS is there though.

That's the same thing for SC, there are tons of missing features.
They collected hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars, they can't simply fix what's already there and say "we're done, 90% of the feature you paid for aren't there, but at least it works."

[Wraith]

The issue is the milestone keep changing lol
May I remind you that the initial estimate release date was 2014
What year is it now?

[lnomsim]

The last milestone was set at a 65Millions$, and it hasn't changed for years, it was already set at this point when I bought my first package back in 2016 I think.

So, no, they don't keep changing.

The roadmap keeps changing, with new features getting pushed back all the time. I am well aware the game is late in reaching its goals. And once again, I am certainly not defending that.

But once again, releasing it without reaching any of the milestones isn't a solution either.

Would you like your next X game to be played in only one ship? ;D

[eMYNOCK]

lnomsim님이 먼저 게시:

Would you like your next X game to be played in only one ship? ;D

now I feel reminded of the Guys that i warned about getting super-hyped... turned out.. i got a game in 2013... and one in 2018... and they are still waiting for theirs...

[lnomsim]

Yep, hype is never a good thing, especially nowadays, but people rarely learn their lesson.

[Wraith]

eMYNOCK님이 먼저 게시:

lnomsim님이 먼저 게시:

Would you like your next X game to be played in only one ship? ;D

now I feel reminded of the Guys that i warned about getting super-hyped... turned out.. i got a game in 2013... and one in 2018... and they are still waiting for theirs...

Funny @Inomsim said this pulls me back to X-rebirth lol.
I remember being confine to the Albion Skunk
Also show me your wares please

[eMYNOCK]

Wraith님이 먼저 게시:

eMYNOCK님이 먼저 게시:

now I feel reminded of the Guys that i warned about getting super-hyped... turned out.. i got a game in 2013... and one in 2018... and they are still waiting for theirs...

Funny @Inomsim said this pulls me back to X-rebirth lol.
I remember being confine to the Albion Skunk
Also show me your wares please

just no.. please... do not give anyone at the office ideas for next april fools day... you won't be able to play if they decide to prank something like that in.

[NoDMoD]

I ma actually very, very pissed off about SC at this point.

When it came out, I purchased on of the cheap ships, thinking about3 years later max, I will get to play Squadron 42 (the single player game), which by all means, could have easily been finished by now, without adding tons of features, just a good story, nice dog fighting and some good cut scenes.

It's a complete scam.

(But in all honesty, I lost [and also won] more money in a night of poker), it's not like themoney hurt me.... but my feelings were hurt.

[lnomsim]

There, there. There are other flowers in the garden that bloom quicker and more beautiful.

[ZombieHunter]

NoDMoD님이 먼저 게시:

I ma actually very, very pissed off about SC at this point.

When it came out, I purchased on of the cheap ships, thinking about3 years later max, I will get to play Squadron 42 (the single player game), which by all means, could have easily been finished by now, without adding tons of features, just a good story, nice dog fighting and some good cut scenes.

It's a complete scam.

(But in all honesty, I lost [and also won] more money in a night of poker), it's not like themoney hurt me.... but my feelings were hurt.

Haha in poker. Haven't we all. But at least in that game you know you are basically throwing your money away with the slight chance you could get more than you bet. Slight. And there is some skill involved so you have a bit of control. But throwing your money at a game that isn't done over and over is basically the same as withdrawing it from the bank and then setting it on fire. Not something we like to do. I buy into Early Access titles quite a bit and most, but not all, have delivered on their promises. But I don't mind b/c it is a reasonable sunk cost. I never found SC's premise to be reasonable in the least. And now it certainly borders on absurdity. And the developers that have left the project pretty much say it is in development hell. When you are not beholden to stakeholders or a timeline and no one has the authority to hold you to the timeline you never get out of shiny new thing mode and the scope never ever narrows. I don't know if it will ever come out of the hell it is in. I hope it does, but it does not look good.

[NoDMoD]

ZombieHunter님이 먼저 게시:

NoDMoD님이 먼저 게시:

I ma actually very, very pissed off about SC at this point.

When it came out, I purchased on of the cheap ships, thinking about3 years later max, I will get to play Squadron 42 (the single player game), which by all means, could have easily been finished by now, without adding tons of features, just a good story, nice dog fighting and some good cut scenes.

It's a complete scam.

(But in all honesty, I lost [and also won] more money in a night of poker), it's not like themoney hurt me.... but my feelings were hurt.

Haha in poker. Haven't we all. But at least in that game you know you are basically throwing your money away with the slight chance you could get more than you bet. Slight. And there is some skill involved so you have a bit of control. But throwing your money at a game that isn't done over and over is basically the same as withdrawing it from the bank and then setting it on fire. Not something we like to do. I buy into Early Access titles quite a bit and most, but not all, have delivered on their promises. But I don't mind b/c it is a reasonable sunk cost. I never found SC's premise to be reasonable in the least. And now it certainly borders on absurdity. And the developers that have left the project pretty much say it is in development hell. When you are not beholden to stakeholders or a timeline and no one has the authority to hold you to the timeline you never get out of shiny new thing mode and the scope never ever narrows. I don't know if it will ever come out of the hell it is in. I hope it does, but it does not look good.

Yea, but by my viewpoint (back then and some time later) all this did not apply to single player mode, which is focused on story, no need to all the eytra shiny things or hundrets oif ships, not even whole planets.

And this viweopint is still valid for me, the open world multiplayer, they could work on forver, but there is absolutely no excuse for a single player campaing, even if it lasts just 2 hours.

[Gregorovitch]

lnomsim님이 먼저 게시:

@Wraith
Don't just quote part of what I said.

When you buy the game (which is not buying the game by the way), they have milestones, so basically, imagine you are buying a car and the car seller is telling you that if enough people buy the car and put enough money, everyone will have ABS, GPS, air conditioner, it can float in water and even fly!

And then, even though enough people bought the car and they collected way more money they tell you. So..; we had a hard time making the car fly or float, so we decided to release it without brakes, but don't worry, you won't get into an accident because it doesn't t have wheels or an engine anyway.

The GPS is there though.

That's the same thing for SC, there are tons of missing features.
They collected hundreds of thousands of millions of dollars, they can't simply fix what's already there and say "we're done, 90% of the feature you paid for aren't there, but at least it works."

What it actually is with SC is the car may have the GPS and aircon etc but it's engine hasn't actually been developed yet. The engine, as we know from X games is the "living breathing universe" thing. Missions, economy, trading, politics etc, all emergent, all dynamic blah, blah. SC doesn't have that yet. Without it it will remain a tech demo.

Roberts has got form on this. This "living breathing universe" thing is what he promised for Freelancer. He failed miserably and ran out of money. Microsoft bought the game and put together a fairly standard space combat adventure game will a little bit of trading and a couple of off piste systems to explore during interludes in the story which obviously amounted to the sum total of what Roberts had managed to achieve on the "living breathing universe" front before he ran out of money.

This is because making a truly "living breathing universe" is a lot harder than it seems. You can't just wish it or bully people to make it so. You have to have a viable design solution to generate one that folks enjoy playing in. It is obvious Roberts doesn't have such a design solution and that's why SC doesn't exists as a game yet.

Egosoft on the othewr hand do and that's why they released X: BTF before the butchered Freelancer was finished and why both Rebirth and X4 have been developed and released already since the start of the SC project.

The situation with SC is a scandal and a disgrace to the industry IMHO.