Is Tides of Avarice a bit light on content, compared to previous DLC?

[XIII]

ToA is a good DLC, at least for long time players absolutely worth it and the 5.0 patch includes a LOT of improvements and additions. Stuff like the new Paranid capital ships or scrap mechanics can basically be counted towards the DLC IMO, because DLC is part of what funds the development.

So no buyers remorse here, at all. Game is better than ever.

Still, Im curious what people think about the content? The Split DLC brought a major faction and shook up the universe; it made X4 feel complete to me. Tons of new ships, sectors and equipment. Meanwhile the Terran DLC also brought a mini-economy, while the Terran factions had even more new ships than the Split.

Tides brings the Erlking and Astrid, which are going to mainstays in most peoples fleets, but the actual pirate-factions seems pretty basic. Some cool ships for sure, but using argon tech and without M sized warships, there isnt much of a shakeup. Just 6/7 or so new sectors, of which 3 are locked behind the Protectyon thing, so the Universe mostly functions the same. The plots are really neat again, but they also highlight a bit how piracy in X-games was always quite limited in effectiveness. It wouldve been nice to have some more protection racket or toll mechanics, or just something that scales beyond small scale theft. The way you acquire and upgrade the Earlking also feels like cut content.

Like, Split and Terran DLC are must have for anyone that enjoys this game, but Tides is more something extra for veterans. Its not nearly as large and meaningful.
So is that just me, or a more common sentiment? Please share your thoughts!

[400g]

Tbh the terran DLC is more useless. The ships are visually ok-ish but the stats aren't good, the only ship that is somewhat usefull is the Asgard and that only because of the main gun.
EDIT: Oh and the M Ship that flies fast, forgot the name.

The terran sectors are the worst part. The economy is a joke and there are no enemies in there. Not a single reason to go there except for the story missions. It's just a bunch of sectors noone is willing to use.

I haven't played Avarice long enough for a final judgement but so far I say it is: Split>Avarice>Terran

[Old Man Gibb]

I think I have to Agree with 400g, the Terran expansion has had 0% input on my game-play at all. I am not a fan of the ships, I have only picked up the Asgard once, and IMO it was no worth the hassle. some like the M as it's fast, however fast does not make for a good ship. But then I normally use ships according to my own tastes. For me the ToA expansion is far more enjoyable the the Terran's, I do wish that the ToA expansion came with a lot more sectors & more.. well, more. It's hard to say exactly. The Cave look of windfall was a real shock. I do agree with the OP that the way you get the Erlking is weird. And finding all the Data Vaults I found just an exorcise in frustration. After the first time I Now use two different mods, one allows to be able to purchase the ship, License required, the other is a Satellite mod that has a Sat that finds the Data vaults real fast. The Astride has become my personal Favorite Ship for exploring. Modded with Tear 3 mods you can get the speed over 12k. Makes getting places real nice. However with that all said, I still think that for a complete feel of the Game, All Three DLC are very much needed. Maybe the Boron will be next, Or at the very least, Kingdoms End Gate will come back on line. 😁

[Michigan Plumbing]

Originally posted by Old Man Gibb:

I think I have to Agree with 400g, the Terran expansion has had 0% input on my game-play at all. I am not a fan of the ships, I have only picked up the Asgard once, and IMO it was no worth the hassle. some like the M as it's fast, however fast does not make for a good ship. But then I normally use ships according to my own tastes. For me the ToA expansion is far more enjoyable the the Terran's, I do wish that the ToA expansion came with a lot more sectors & more.. well, more. It's hard to say exactly. The Cave look of windfall was a real shock. I do agree with the OP that the way you get the Erlking is weird. And finding all the Data Vaults I found just an exorcise in frustration. After the first time I Now use two different mods, one allows to be able to purchase the ship, License required, the other is a Satellite mod that has a Sat that finds the Data vaults real fast. The Astride has become my personal Favorite Ship for exploring. Modded with Tear 3 mods you can get the speed over 12k. Makes getting places real nice. However with that all said, I still think that for a complete feel of the Game, All Three DLC are very much needed. Maybe the Boron will be next, Or at the very least, Kingdoms End Gate will come back on line. 😁

Playing VRO, but I think this still hold for vanilla: Terran Factories make a lot of damn money.

If you have a good enough manager, theoretically you could make a super factory in Venus that sends miners to the asteroid belt and circumvent the absolute theft that is player made wharf income which I just learned about.

[GetUrAssToMars]

Cradle of humanity had nice looking ships and decent player starts. Watered down economy model did absolutely nothing for me. The split dlc added some well needed beef to the galaxy.

Have yet to play Avarice will get to it eventually, but it does sound a little lacking in content from what I gather...

[Old Man Gibb]

Originally posted by Michigan Plumbing:

Originally posted by Old Man Gibb:

I think I have to Agree with 400g, the Terran expansion has had 0% input on my game-play at all. I am not a fan of the ships, I have only picked up the Asgard once, and IMO it was no worth the hassle. some like the M as it's fast, however fast does not make for a good ship. But then I normally use ships according to my own tastes. For me the ToA expansion is far more enjoyable the the Terran's, I do wish that the ToA expansion came with a lot more sectors & more.. well, more. It's hard to say exactly. The Cave look of windfall was a real shock. I do agree with the OP that the way you get the Erlking is weird. And finding all the Data Vaults I found just an exorcise in frustration. After the first time I Now use two different mods, one allows to be able to purchase the ship, License required, the other is a Satellite mod that has a Sat that finds the Data vaults real fast. The Astride has become my personal Favorite Ship for exploring. Modded with Tear 3 mods you can get the speed over 12k. Makes getting places real nice. However with that all said, I still think that for a complete feel of the Game, All Three DLC are very much needed. Maybe the Boron will be next, Or at the very least, Kingdoms End Gate will come back on line. 😁

Playing VRO, but I think this still hold for vanilla: Terran Factories make a lot of damn money.

If you have a good enough manager, theoretically you could make a super factory in Venus that sends miners to the asteroid belt and circumvent the absolute theft that is player made wharf income which I just learned about.

Very true, However for the way I play, I don't use very many stations at all. This is one of, if not the best thing about the X series, there is almost an innumerable different ways to play the games. The Terran's while very important to game lore, have had 0% effect in my game play. I'm glad you have found a use for them, I may one day give a factory a goe there in a different play through.

[Astasia]

From a RP perspective I really enjoyed Cradle of Humanity, playing as a Terran going through their quests and using their ships. I don't think any ship needs to be the best in the game at something to be used, CoH added a lot of variety and gameplay, and I also think it's pretty great that it is mostly isolated and not something you need to deal with every play through. It was a pretty big step up from Split Vendetta I think in overall content, but Split Vendetta was still pretty solid and worthwhile.

Tides of Avarice so far to me seems like such a minimal DLC I have to kind of question why it was priced the same. It's like 1/4 the number of sectors added by the other DLCs and 1/3 the number of ships. I haven't finished the story missions yet, going through the Stranded start the first like 15 quests all feel like an extended forced tutorial of basic game mechanics which feels a bit late for the game and is a bit of a slog so I haven't gotten through it very fast. I love the concept of the DLC, I just wish it was a lot more fleshed out. Add some more M and L ship variety to the faction, maybe another XL that isn't tied to the story, that would make it more worthwhile IMO.

[XIII]

Wow, Im surprised a lot of you dont seem to think as much of CoH! IMO its nice to have an alternative world to deal with (agreed on the RP aspect, interesting to play an actual human!).
And true, the economy couldve been a bit more complex, but the ressource drain is quite challenging to handle imo. And imo it gets really interesting, when you combine your other faction-ships with Terran tech, thats adds another dimension.

Ship wise Terrans got really good ships though. Destroyers are excellent, as is the Asgard, and the fighters/m-ships are pretty effective as well, especially with Terran guns. Maybe not best in class, but not everything has to be power creep.

I gotta agree that its quite "cut off" from the rest of the world though, probably couldve been better implemented. But in the end, I feel like it added quite a bit more than Tides, at least for me.

Originally posted by Old Man Gibb:

The Astride has become my personal Favorite Ship for exploring. Modded with Tear 3 mods you can get the speed over 12k. Makes getting places real nice. However with that all said, I still think that for a complete feel of the Game, All Three DLC are very much needed. Maybe the Boron will be next, Or at the very least, Kingdoms End Gate will come back on line. 😁

I love the Astrid as a business ship, but man, that thing doesnt need more speed, it actually needs breaking mods xD

Im very curious what the next DLC will be, or if Egosoft works on a successor, or a completely different game? If you dont do Borons, what else is there.

[Bozz 💀]

I personnally don't really care about plots, the COH DLC did add some nice plots that were not too tedious to do and had nice rewards but so far I have not even finished any TOA Plot because honestly they are tedious as ♥♥♥♥, Those plots feel more like a tutorial than a real story, if you are new to do game then it's okey but after 1500 Hours playing I really don't care to learn how to board ships or hack stations... that really should not have been part of a plot specially when it's the third DLC being released...

COH was my favorite DLC even if Split is not far behind, TOA is kinda minimal, was hoping for more pirate ships, don't get me wrong, the ships in the DLC are great but no real new M corvette, no new fast pirate carrier with cargo space... They are some really good things they could have done with pirate ships :/ only a few new sectors.

Also the interview with bernd was very misleading as he talked about some kind of rework for SCA I thought they would give them new ships and or mechaniques...

For 15$ it's still a good DLC, adds more content than most other games do with their DLCs and it's still great quality ! And the music is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome as usual !

the next gota be Borons !

[Chris]

Originally posted by XIII:

ToA is a good DLC, at least for long time players absolutely worth it and the 5.0 patch includes a LOT of improvements and additions. Stuff like the new Paranid capital ships or scrap mechanics can basically be counted towards the DLC IMO, because DLC is part of what funds the development.

So no buyers remorse here, at all. Game is better than ever.

Still, Im curious what people think about the content?

So, in the spirit of "DLC funds the major patches", I'll list out some of the new changes & explain how I think they make for a complete DLC's worth of content.

New sectors: 3 new VIG sectors that connect Teladi & Argon space (making Eighteen Billion suddenly a very interesting sector to set up an everything-factory/move your PHQ), 3 new RIP sectors with an interesting Tide mechanic (though I do wish for some changes to that, such as a visible timer on the map screen & more uses/need for Protectyon), and 1 new "secret" sector that unfortunately requires very manual navigation to reach.
A bit fewer sectors than the Split or Terran DLCs introduced, but placed in a more central/connected location and including some novel new mechanics.

2 new factions: Eh, the lore is interesting but I didn't find either VIG or RIP to be particularly compelling, except as a new market for goods & some new NPC outfit styles.

New mechanic: Scrapping & recycling. I think players have been requesting a wrecks/recycling mechanic for a while, and this is a pretty complex implementation with 2 new ships, 3 new buildings, and an entire new station-supply-construction mechanic (seriously; check out your stations/wharves to see the "closed loop" style that lets you construct any consumable/deployable from just claytronics/hull parts/energy cells.....). I think there's still some balance-tuning that could be done with this process, but in general I think it works well.

New ships: In addition to the 2 scrap-specific ships, there's also 2 new unique ships (one of which is a battlecruiser), an interesting destroyer-freighter combination, and several S-sized ships that are visually interesting (but kind of boring stats-wise).

New modules: The gambling den module is interesting as a way of making it less painful to grow a large station population. The Protectyon shield/condensate storage are both related to the new Tides mechanic & don't have much use outside of those sectors (though I'm testing whether slapping that shield on station construction missions actually expands the market for Protectyon outside of the RIP sectors). The scrap receiving module & the 2 processing modules (for CoP or TER materials).

New station interiors: Honestly I loved this, as it adds some neat new variety to the interior of stations, rather than the same boring T-shaped corridor.

New ship mods: The Hazard Shielding maaaaaay be useful for ships that frequently spend time in those sectors (Tharka's Cascade mainly, but I guess also that one band in The Void). The cargo-cloaking mod seems interesting, but not worth using up the chassis slot in my opinion (probably because I don't have illegal wares producing stations).

Equipment: I do wish that this DLC had included some new equipment. Maybe a new Ion blaster that temporarily slowed a ship's max speed or a "boarding pod" weapon slot item that let you carry more marines or something else "piratey" themed. I think just sticking with default ARG equipment and claiming "that's what they had when the gates shut down" is kinda weak.

[Bozz 💀]

also I hope next DLC doesn't focus on plots anymore, just give more content for the sandbox, I feel like they are plenty of plots and they cover every inch of what you can do in the game...

[GetUrAssToMars]

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

also I hope next DLC doesn't focus on plots anymore, just give more content for the sandbox, I feel like they are plenty of plots and they cover every inch of what you can do in the game...

Agreed, and I feel like their strength lies in sandbox anyways. No one is going to walk away from any of these plots and go "♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ I wish The Witcher devs would take some notes from these guys... Gimme more!"

Give us more gameplay mechanics. Fix/improve things lol.

[XIII]

Originally posted by Bozz 💀:

[...]

I do like the plots, but yeh, otherwise Im agreeing. The previous DLCs were just so good that this feels a bit limited, there wouldve been so much more potential. Sick music tho, as always.

[XIII]

Originally posted by Chris:

[...]

I generally agree with the stuff youre saying, but theres a bunch of reasons that makes a lot of the DLC a bit inconsequential:

1. The Tide mechanic just isnt interesting gameplay-wise. Its basically "have protectyon or die". That you cant automatize production of it is annoying, and you are reliant on ships in the sector to flee fast enough when a tide comes, which is questionable with X4s AI. It really just makes me want not to go these sectors. The only upside is a crazy energy cell bonus. which Im not sure is the biggest deal?

2. And worse, to make scrapping reliant on Avarice EC-production is severely limiting such a cool feature. Doing it anywhere else will be extremely costly. Why cant I, idk, play a Split and have a scrapping facility at the front, why is it soft limited to some central pirate sectors?

3. The new sectors form a central bridge, but we already had one with Grand Exchange, and the Super Highway does the rest. Great spot for a pirate sector (altho Nopileos was already close), but not a gamechanger.

4. The Barbossa is a cool ship, but even normal L-freighters are WAY too expensive for their very limited transport-capacity (speed+capacity). Its neither a very good destroyer (compare to Odysseus E), nor is it cost-effective as a freighter. Its expensive even for a Destroyer.

Nothing here is necessarily terrible, but nothing has much of a real impact on the universe. Thats what makes the DLC feel just a bit lacking.
Exception being the Astrid/Earlking, but those are almost extras completely seperate from the rest of the DLC.

[Wraith]

My personal feeling.
ToA DLC - how they should have done the tutorial it breaks down stuff pretty well.

CoH DLC - how they should do plot.

If they can combine those two in future game then we might actually not have a mountain to climb at future games.

Both bring their own list of ships that are bad and good so I can't really pick one or the other.

[LotR[Henchman]]

In terms of ship numbers and so on, it definately feels less. The free update is nice and added quite a lot people hoped for.
The problem for me personally has been my expectation though. As it didn't really add much to piracy. In comparison CoH and SV added what i expected - Splits and Terrans.

ToA was imo more ambitious in what it tried to do (stronger story ties, two ships designed as mostly uniques, a unique hazard, some deeper piracy overtures). But it falls short quite often in these things. With the bugs in scripts we've been used to, leading one to question if a plot really just ended quite abrupt or worked as it was supposed to be.

Though i gotta again praise the team for the design of the Erlking and Astrid. And how they've now becoming seemingly a bit more open to not have each plotline be a variance of "there's this faction bureaucrat wanting you to wage war between these two factions" or some variance therefore. But rather look for something that feels more personal.