Player owned wharf inefficient?

[fluppi]

So I set up a new S/M-Ship Fabrication Wharf, but the prices seem a bit off for ordered AI Ships. Right now I own all blueprints you can get from the protectorate (equipment plus chassis) but it feels quite too cheap to order at my wharf. A Gladius got me 369.260 Credits. The Chassis alone costs around 400k at a protectorate owned wharf. I have set the prices now up to 150% and now nobody orders at all. Something seems not right, especially because the station has lots of troubles to finance itself, most money it makes right now is with the surplus of energy cells and food and medication products for the workers

Edit: I've set the pricing to 140% and the protectorate ordered a Nimcha. I inspected the equipment and it was all buffed out with high end gear. They paid me with 1.852.210 Cr.
I looked what it would cost in their wharf to equip nimcha with that stuff and this weapons shields and engines alone would cost 3mio Cr

[Daddy Shark]

Gregorovitch eredeti hozzászólása:

Bullpup eredeti hozzászólása:

What exactly was wrecked in the simulation? AI has infinite cash so they didn't 'suffer' by giving the player 200m per day.

It's not about money (the factions don't use money) it's about resources. My understanding is that previously players could buy in all the resources necessary to build ships and still make a considerable profit. This had the effect of stripping the factions of resources and crippling their economies. My understanding is the price for player ships sales has now been set such that it is no longer possible to make a profit if you buy in the resources to build them, the intention being to ensure players build a full supply chain before starting a shipyard.

After installing the mod and returning the sales values to pre-4.0 levels, I can say with certainty this is a line of hogwash. You're still taking a massive hit in profits by selling to the AI vs. selling manually to a station. It is 100% for sure not enough to "strip factions of resources" nor "cripple their economy".

It is simply a poor decision in a futile attempt to drag out the gameplay loop. "If I make it take longer to get rich, then they'll have to play more to get there!! I'm a GENIUS!".

[Wraith]

Star trucker I think your forgetting pre nerf that the faction didn't strip your sold ship for resources.
So before when you sold manually to a station those resources were gone gone.
Even if you install a mod to return the money value to normal, there now a new feature where the AI will recycle your manually sold ship and fill their own shipyard with resources.

[Daddy Shark]

Wraith eredeti hozzászólása:

Star trucker I think your forgetting pre nerf that the faction didn't strip your sold ship for resources.
So before when you sold manually to a station those resources were gone gone.
Even if you install a mod to return the money value to normal, there now a new feature where the AI will recycle your manually sold ship and fill their own shipyard with resources.

That's great and all, but it still doesn't solve the issue.

TER wants a Katana with meson streams.
A) They buy it from me in Vanilla automatically for 1.2M
B) With the mod setting prices to pre-4.0 levels it gets you 3M
C) Building the exact same ship yourself and selling it to the TER shipyard manually gets you 16M

I'm saying you should always get price C. Be it they buy from you, or you sell to them manually. You should always get the 16M price, because that's what I would pay if I went to their shipyard and bought the same ship. There's no logical sense as to why my shipyard charges 1.2M for something everyone else in the galaxy charges 16M to get. That's just flat-out stupid.

[CyberMan]

eMYNOCK eredeti hozzászólása:

I'm not sure if its allowed to link to the nexus mods website, but I'll post you the link for this mod, in the hopes, it'll not be punished:

in fact, you were faster than i was with finding this Mod...
i would have posted the very same link.

still, usage of mods is at the users very own risk and the Mod Author is responsible to keep them up 2 date.

How about a signed mod that dosent set the game modified thats set it back to normal and dosent modify the savgame. Like for TC/AP the Signed scripts. Then the Masochist and Normal People can be happy.

Edit: Or at least it should not make any profit but running a loss isn't good mechanic either

[Wraith]

Why would people be worried about modified?

It only turn off ventures which is off at the moment anyway.

[CyberMan]

Wraith eredeti hozzászólása:

Why would people be worried about modified?

It only turn off ventures which is off at the moment anyway.

Depends on what the venture overhaul brings in to the game, if its a overhaul that makes it that you need it for say cartain paints or easy mod parts( it seems they are extremly rare now).not everyone likes to restart every time from zero

only real world exemple that is nearly the same as the "fix" printer manufactures, make cheap printer sell expensive in, but the spaceships dont need ink arent they? or will there a option to sell paint jobs to the npc?

[Wraith]

There already a mod that literally allow you to buy all the paint job and anything that venture already give you?
So if your modding the game you already have access to everything venture can give you.

[Ablomis]

The shipyard prices nerf doesnt make any sense.

100+ hours into the game too much money.... jeez... when are you supposed not to suffer and grind? 1000hours into the game? 1000000 hours into the game?

People complaining about too much money and money not an issue? there is a slider for prices you know? If you move it from 150% to 50% this will reduce prices to 1/3....

And people who dont want to grind the game all week long and leave pc running overnight should be able to just enjoy the game.

Thanks god there is a mod that fixes it.

P.S. Its such a great game, but sometimes I feel like someone is just trolling players.

[Bozz 💀]

Ablomis eredeti hozzászólása:

The shipyard prices nerf doesnt make any sense.

People complaining about too much money and money not an issue? there is a slider for prices you know? If you move it from 150% to 50% this will reduce prices to 1/3....

100+ hours into the game too much money.... jeez... when are you supposed not to suffer and grind? 1000hours into the game? 1000000 hours into the game?

And people who dont want to grind the game all week long and leave pc running overnight should be able to just enjoy the game.

Thanks god there is a mod that fixes it.

P.S. Its such a great game, but sometimes I feel like someone is just trolling players.

it breaks balance, not like the game is very balanced even now, but it's like the nerf for crystal mining, it's to balance things, previously you would just go for the shipyard to get rich, now it's harder... or you would just hunt crystalls in early game because it was the most rewarding, now you have more choices in what to do... They are still some things that are very OP though...

[Ablomis]

I dont get it. X4 is a Sandbox, you dont have to mine crystals if you dont want. Thats the point of the game.

I had 3 large factories that produced ~60% of parts for ships. And they were fairly profitable.
I built a wharf and my income went down the drain, because I had to purchase some of the parts and sell ships for like 80k. And not always getting orders, while at the same time workforce consumes resources.

You invest sh&t tons of money in a factory with sh&t ROI.

That's not balance, that doesnt make any sense.

I wish devs focused on balancing ships and weapons (a gazillion threads on reddit) - things that really matter rather try to stretch the gameloop for people who can build a shipyard in 7 hours (Took me ~100hours) by min maxing and then complaining that their min maxing actually works.

[Daddy Shark]

Ablomis eredeti hozzászólása:

I dont get it. X4 is a Sandbox, you dont have to mine crystals if you dont want. Thats the point of the game.

I had 3 large factories that produced ~60% of parts for ships. And they were fairly profitable.
I built a wharf and my income went down the drain, because I had to purchase some of the parts and sell ships for like 80k. And not always getting orders, while at the same time workforce consumes resources.

You invest sh&t tons of money in a factory with sh&t ROI.

That's not balance, that doesnt make any sense.

I wish devs focused on balancing ships and weapons (a gazillion threads on reddit) - things that really matter rather try to stretch the gameloop for people who can build a shipyard in 7 hours (Took me ~100hours) by min maxing and then complaining that their min maxing actually works.

I agree with you 1000%. However, we are simply a "vocal minority" and our opinion on the matter doesn't count.

You can try this out for size. It still doesn't fully correct the problem here, but it puts the prices back to where they were : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2482992334

[Daddy Shark]

Bozz 💀 eredeti hozzászólása:

it breaks balance, not like the game is very balanced even now, but it's like the nerf for crystal mining, it's to balance things, previously you would just go for the shipyard to get rich, now it's harder... or you would just hunt crystalls in early game because it was the most rewarding, now you have more choices in what to do... They are still some things that are very OP though...

This line of (and I'm using the term loosely here) logic is hilarious. Reminds me of the griffons in WoW. They have these towers spread out through the zones where you can hop on a griffon and it zips over to the next tower. People started moaning and complaining that they were missing out on all the content and the griffon towers should be removed.

"You could just not use the towers and walk to where you're going. No one is forcing you to use them." replied the devs.

"But they're so fast! I can't NOT use them if they're right there!"

[blackphoenixx]

I find it hilarious how people argue that a singleplayer game doesn't need balance.
If you want unlimited money just use cheats instead of moaning about how it's sooo hard to earn some (it's not).

If your shipyards make less money selling to NPCs than you'd get selling the materials just stop selling to NPCs and only use it to make your own fleets.
Not every module has to be a money maker, there are more than enough of those.
And the ability to make your own ships is valuable enough on its own to still justify buying and building one.

Seriously, by the time you can afford to build a build module and buy a few blueprints to get started you should be rolling in money unless you abused SETA and just waited instead of actually playing the game and expanding your business empire.

And quite frankly someone NOT playing the game is not something the devs should have to accomodate. If you want all the things without doing something to get them use cheats, that's what they're for.

[Draa]

Star Trucker eredeti hozzászólása:

Bozz 💀 eredeti hozzászólása:

it breaks balance, not like the game is very balanced even now, but it's like the nerf for crystal mining, it's to balance things, previously you would just go for the shipyard to get rich, now it's harder... or you would just hunt crystalls in early game because it was the most rewarding, now you have more choices in what to do... They are still some things that are very OP though...

I can't NOT use them if they're right there!"

Isn't that the way most gamers are though?

I've even seen one person find the secret to a game and before long the entire player base is using the same tactic. It happens a lot in multiplayer. I think it's called min/maxing but I'm not certain. Either way I know it's a thing in gaming.

[Bozz 💀]

you know that you can also simply build ships for the war missions and make hundreds of millions of credits ? I mean I understand it was easier to just wait for factions to buy ships but if the universe stagnates and has little wars they would not buy anything, war missions are infinite, so you can basically build lots of Osaka, tokyo, raptor, rattlesnakes, colossus, behemoths etc... and just sell them for war missions and print billions...
They nerfed shipyard but missions are still OP as ♥♥♥♥