Argon Fighter Fans, What are Good Loadouts for a Pulsar or Eclipse?

[Ferrous Ferret]

So I bought the base Foundations game in the recent sale, and have been gradually amassing a mining fleet as I explore different sectors in the Young Gun start. I'm finally about ready to put the old Elite Vanguard behind me and upgrade to a different ride, and have settled on one of the two ships in the title (since it's just the base game no Split or Terran stuff for me, and I know most people prefer the Nemesis as a player ship but I just don't like the way it looks).

But, I'm finding myself at a loss on what guns to put on either one. I know from extensive googling plasma cannons are really only good against big ships, and beams only really good against small ones, with pulse lasers and bolts somewhere in between, but nothing on the usefulness (or lack thereof) of missiles on S ships, or whether it's better to load up on pulses or bolts vs having a couple of plasma cannons + guns more suited to taking on smaller craft, or whatever. Also, differences on how I should equip my personal ship vs AI-controlled fighters as I build up an escort fleet.

Also, as a bonus question, the Cerberus looks like it could make a nice escort craft with its ability to launch drones and carry turrets, but I'm equally at a loss here on how best to equip its weapon hardpoints.

Any help greatly appreciated!

[Takichi]

Pulsar should be 5 Weapons right?
Normaly i tend to use the maximum Amount of Puls MK2 for a more or less "every porpuse" Ship. After i got some money and i have found a Ship i like to fly/use for longer, i just build 1-2 copys of it with different loadouts for specific tasks. Or i adjust my Loadout early if i decided on a more specific way to play, for example stealing Ships(better use those Plasma and Rockets in my opinion) or if fighting Xenon is the way to go i adjust to that.

But what you also can do, espacialy with Ships who got 3+ Weapons, do 2 Puls, 2 another Type of Laser/Flak or smth, and the Fifht/sixth do Rockets. A bit like a Jack of All Trades.... sure you will lose a bit of consistent Power in every fight, but you are equiped to handle a lot of things the game throws at you, without worrying, also it helps to get know the different Weapons because in the End.... most of it comes down to preference and feeling.

[Ferrous Ferret]

Pulsar actually has *six* guns on it, which is what attracted me to it, the potential for a full-on "Swiss Army Knife" loadout... or just massive firepower. I feel like I might be safer in the Eclipse with its second shield generator, but it only has four gun mounts.

[Takichi]

Originally posted by AWOL Joe:

Pulsar actually has *six* guns on it, which is what attracted me to it, the potential for a full-on "Swiss Army Knife" loadout... or just massive firepower. I feel like I might be safer in the Eclipse with its second shield generator, but it only has four gun mounts.

Pulsar is a fine Ship and as long as you pay a bit attention to your surounding its fine... just dont fly straight into several Enemys at once or stright into Turret Fire and you be good^^
Otherwise, check out the Antigone Ships, they got 1-2 Tweaks to the Argon Versions, one of them should mount more Weapons when its Argon Counterpart but cant remember which one, might be a bit more "Tanky" while got more punch ^^

[GeluHUN]

Mine has Ion Blasters on hardpoint 1&6, and Shard Batteries on hardpoints 2-4.

[blackphoenixx]

I prefer Shards for my fighters both for NPC pilots and for personal use.

But i also use Perseus Vanguards because the speed actually makes them more survivable than the supposedly tankier fighters (for IS use as wingmen) so i need the firepower to make up for the lack of hardpoints. And after getting used to the speed (and strafing faster than some of those tubs go forward) it's really hard to switch to a different fighter.

As for missiles on fighters they're very useful - provided you have a way to resupply them, because fighters don't hold many.
So that means a carrier, auxiliary or a supply base nearby, which makes them largely infeasible early game.

I do have a Cerberus too but if you intend to use it as a drone carrier you're going to be disappointed unless you just want to park it in front of a gate.
It takes ages for them to dock whenever you want to go somewhere which just makes the entire thing a massive hassle.
I do use defense drones on mine, but 4 is the most i can stand. The other weapons are flak in the turrets set to attack fighters and dumbfire missiles for its main armament to deal with heavier stuff, though plasma cannons also work if you don't want to deal with ammo.

[Ferrous Ferret]

So if I understand you right, assuming supply is not an issue, missiles are a viable if not outright superior alternative to plasma cannons?

(As for the Cerberus I'm not sure exactly what I want to do with it but it is useful to know the drones are better use for defending static positions)

[SuzieSiouxsie]

For the Pulsar i prefer 4*Bolts Mk2 at the outer mount points and a single Ion Mk2 and a single Pulse Mk2 (container lock-pick) at the inners. This combo melt down most enemy S/M really fast and can take down a K alone, with some time spended. Just don't get hit too often.
I don't like to use the cerberus (2'Bolts/4*Flak) personally but its a good guardian for most miners and small stations. It does the job even better with a minotaur (2*Bolts/4*Flak) as a pair.

[blackphoenixx]

Originally posted by AWOL Joe:

So if I understand you right, assuming supply is not an issue, missiles are a viable if not outright superior alternative to plasma cannons?

(As for the Cerberus I'm not sure exactly what I want to do with it but it is useful to know the drones are better use for defending static positions)

Missiles aren't just viable, they're outright superior if you disregard the supply issue. A wing of fighters equipped with tracking launchers will easily murder twice their number in enemies, assuming they don't run out of ammo.

There's also the hidden benefit of fighters retreating to repair and rearm regularly in the middle of combat (if they have an assigned supply ship/carrier) which helps lower losses.

You have to experiment a bit to figure out which missiles to use for what (dual launchers with light smart missiles are my favorite for interceptors because they basically ignore flares) but as long as you use the right missile for the job they beat every other weapon category by a landslide.

And a Cerberus loaded up with all tracking launchers and a stack of light swarm missiles will absolutely butcher anything lighter than a P (which you pack some heavy missiles for).
Until it runs out of ammo at least, which happens fast, so some kind of supply option is definitely required.

As for the drones it's mainly an issue of frigates only having one dock. Having an escort of 10 defense drones is fantastic, but it takes ages to launch and redock them.

If you're just parking them in front of a jump gate to Xenon space that's fine, but otherwise you'll constantly be waiting for your frigates to redock their drones after each fight with little benefit because by the time they were launched the fight was nearly over.

2-4 drones are fine depending on if you want more speed or more firepower, but anything more than that is a mostly worthless waste of time unless you micromanage them. Also set them to escort instead of defend so they launch before combat starts.
Larger ships with more docks can obviously make better use of more drones.

What really worked well for me though was assigning a fighter each to "intercept for commander" to my frigates. They'll usually be parked on deck so takeoff time isn't an issue and with a fast fighter it's a great combination of speed and firepower.

[Ferrous Ferret]

Everyone's been a big help so far! Any advice on differences in loadout between a personal ship and NPC ones?

[blackphoenixx]

You can handle dogfighting with plasma cannons if you're good, the NPC pilots can't. Choose the right tool for the job and they'll do fine though.

A lot of it also depends on the ship. My Perseus do really well with shard batteries because they have the speed to negate the range disadvantage.
But putting those on an Ares or Eclipse is pointless because they'll spend most of their time chasing the faster fighters instead of shooting, so you're better off with something long range on those if you bother using them for anti-fighter work at all (they suck at it).

Pulse lasers are kinda the universal option. Damage is a little low but their reach and high accuracy makes them the best at anti-fighter work if you're not fast enough to use shards.

For frigates you really want to stay at range so it's either plasma or missiles. They suck at fighter combat and get torn to shreds with close combat weapons when piloted by the AI, you best bet is leaving them at range and launching drones.
I've already mentioned the downsides of those, but an Osprey with a full load of defense drones deployed is a fantastic fighter killer and the slow speed is actually a bonus because it lets your drones keep up with you.

I've found frigates to only be worth it as drone carriers, really. You get far more direct firepower and survivability for your money out of a Nemesis otherwise.

[Ferrous Ferret]

So other than "Osprey with drones" any other suggestions for good fighter-counters?

[blackphoenixx]

The best counters to fighters are drone spam, missiles and your own fighters.
Maneuverability and speed are incredibly important for AI-piloted interceptors though. More important than number of weapons or shields even.

If you try to use something like the Eclipse or Ares as an interceptor you're going to be disappointed. Ships like the Nova, Falcon and Perseus do much better for me both IS and OOS.

It's also why for fighters you should almost always buy the Vanguard version. Or for everything, really. I think the only Sentinel ships i own are Ospreys because the slow speed actually helps their drones keep up and they're absurdly tanky for their class.

Also use PAR shields for fighters. The shorter recharge delay means quick fighters often regenerate back to full shield in combat when they bank around for a new attack run so it helps them survive more than the higher max of TEL shields.

[Valhalla Awaits]

Originally posted by AWOL Joe:

So if I understand you right, assuming supply is not an issue, missiles are a viable if not outright superior alternative to plasma cannons?

(As for the Cerberus I'm not sure exactly what I want to do with it but it is useful to know the drones are better use for defending static positions)

Not exactly...

Pros:
1. Raw damage is unmatched, all the way upto "one-shotting" some ships.

Cons:
1. They miss more frequently as long as your using the right missile for the job.
2. They can be intercepted and destroyed.
3. You can't fire them while being shot at head-on. (Or you'll just kill yourself with your own missiles.
4. They have very limited ammo capacity, and are hard to restock without specilized logistics for them.
5. You have long reload times between shots, meaning missing/having a missile shot down has a much bigger impact on your damage.
6. If one of your missiles is intercepted on a S/M ship, typically ALL your missiles are intercepted due to them blowing up each other.
7. You have limited ammo, if you run out, your permanently down any turrets that used them without a way to restock them.

I RARELY use missiles due to the staggeringly obvious drawbacks. But there are some places I make good use of them. Typically on capital ships with large missile bays but only a few medium turrets. I use them exclusively on my Syn, as it only has a pathetic 4 medium turrets meaning it's almost defenseless to fighters. But missiles are great here because I can carry over 200 of them on a capital, and they can frequently instantly kill a fighter buzzing around the ship with 4 missiles.

PS: I also really fear npc ships firing missiles at me, as they can kill you insanely fast, and npcs don't care about the hassle of resupplying those missiles.