[3.0] ARG and ANT are just a defenseless seal pups

[Sarevok]

Or HOP and Xenons are over-powered. Players are literally obligated to save human factions each play session, because they are destined to be destroyed in 50-200 hours if no very significant help will arrive, and so players are always stressed and in hurry saving them. It's not good for the game and player experience.

[mmmcheesywaffles]

i'm 1300 hours in and no factions in trouble :}

[Selig]

I think it's just random. In my game, currently, ARG is about to lose a sector to Xenon, and ANT already lost one sector to HOT, about to lose another. Only 15 hours in by the way... Not sure how I'm supposed to help with just my Eclipse and trade ships.

[Sarevok]

Originally posted by mmmcheesywaffles:

i'm 1300 hours in and no factions in trouble :}

You started your save in 3.0? It's a 3.0 thing

[Tanvaras]

3.0 and HOP and Xenon own so much of the sectors in my current game. TEL, PAR, ARG and ANT are nigh none existent.

HOP and Xenon from the very first minute of my game starting were on the attack with massive fleets. Have tested a few starts in 3.0 Beta and all doing the same thing, its brutal (fun to watch, but still sheesh from the get go its total war!)

Think there needs to be a check of the AI coding as it seems a little bias to HOP and Xenon.

[zpc]

Same here (new Teladi start with 3.0). HOP has way too many ships to waste. And this is despite the fact they have two frontiers (south: Xenon, north: ANT) which should give them enough pressure to not actually spread their wings in all directions. ANT seems to have no military and ARG doesn't even bother to help although HOP already builds a defense station in Argon Prime (right next to their main carrier - wtf?).

I could understand the Argons loosing a "fair" conflict - but there isn't any defense / action by the military. In my game, it's just slaughter.

[The-Gizmo]

Same with me. I've seen a HOP fleet of 15 destroyers all moving in one giant blob of death. The HOP also know how to outfit their destroyers, using missiles and supply ships to resupply the missiles. ANT and ARG just use beams (flak on 3.0 though) and at best have 1 or 2 destroyers travelling together. The ANT and ARG have no chance to succeed.

[E_B_TheComedian]

why are you stressed? build your empire and make profit of it.... on my map hop did overrun argon prime and antigone. guess what i dont care. i build a giga factory in this time and now they buy all things from me. they rebuild in other sectors and all is fine. and the best part is hop and xenon fighting each other in hatikvah so no 1 is in trouble in my universe.

[rucky]

could I have your saves please?

no seriously, I have now started 3.0 twice (without mods), both for at least 50 ingame hours,
and had never invading or taking over fleets of anyone.
Xenon came in ONE of the saves with a bigger fleet multiple times into Hatikvah's Choice, also building up Defense stations and as there was my fleet parked that bothered me ;-)

But as I build up 30 OOS Plasma Nemesis that patrolled the Gate entrance now, these took care of anything that wandered through. It was way too easy for my liking (to pull Xenon back), but I could not even afford XL ships at that time (no blueprints no own yard), just one main "mobile base" carrier.

I stopped both saves as these weren't enough conflict for me in them.
I'm now restarting with Mods.
Could it be that as I'm at 20+ on any faction (besides the obvious three) that these don't fight each other? (yes I mean 20+ also on HOP)

[Flyingmoley]

haha my game is completely different. In my save ANT and Godrealm are smashing the HOP, they have taken a system each from HOP. I actually attacked Xenon on the HOP border to help the HOP from getting beaten too quickly, and Im selling ships to HOP to help.

The Teladi have destroyed all the Xenon on their border, but the ARG are still battling with the Xenon.

[Aeekto]

In my current savegame (3.0, no mods, teladi start) HOP are destroying ARG and ANT because ARG lose so many ships in Hatikvahs Choice, but at the same time HOP gets invaded by PAR after ~50+ hours.

In my other savegame (3.0, no mods, basic argon start) ARG is pushing into HOP terretory and defended entire ANT/ARG..... but i heavily focused on ANT/ARG economy and i have put HOP on the blocklist..... and the most important thing i did was nonstop defending Hatikvahs Choice until all K's got destroyed and xenon stopped their attacks.

The reason for all of this is how the sectors are connected to each other.
https://preview.redd.it/gmp9xs5v2c221.png?width=1587&format=png&auto=webp&s=8a87bb676e9226923791b6d5c23c5d44fff7917a

HOP has overall good connections and even losing 1 or 2 sectors (to ARG and/or PAR) the economy doesn´t get hurt since Holy Vision still has 2-3 backup Sectors for their economy (Cardinals Regress, Lasting Vengeance).

PAR has a realy good economy and connection because of ALI and TEL/MIN.... even when losing all 3 Pious Mists sectors, they still got so much economical support in their mainsectors where the ships get build (Trinity Sanctum is the key to their power.... stabilized by TEL/MIN)

TEL can handle themselves, even when losing the tradehub in Ianamus Zura.... their economy gets strong over time, they fight back and rebuild it every single game i started.

ANT gets hurt realy quick by losing Second Contact Flashpoint, but The Void and Antigone Memorial can survive on their own but wont have a chance to fight back if they get no economical support by the player.

ARG is in a realy realy realy realy bad spot with their most important main sector Argon Prime.
It has no backup sectors who can support the economy once Hatikvahs Choice gets taken over by XEN..... it´s the most important sector in this entire game since it connects or cuts the economical power of ARG.
Once cut off ARG loses connection to 2 Morning Star sectors, 1 Hatikvahs Choice Sector, Heretics End, 3 Silent Witness Sectors and all Telade Sectors for trades.
The only thing left is The Reach and this sector isn´t realy strong nor important.... and Second Contact Flashpoint which is under heavy attack by HOP.


Maybe devs should move XEN - Tharkas Cascade connection to Hatikvahs Choice III instead of I, which would give ARG more time to stabilize but still would make XEN a threat.
And Morning Star III should have a connection to Argon Prime instead of Hatikvahs Choice since all main sectors from all main factions have 4 connections to other sectors except Argon Prime which only has 3 and 2 of them are under heavy fire.


HOP and XEN shouldn´t get nerfed.... their power is well balanced now... it´s just the economical power of ARG that needs a fix.

[zpc]

Originally posted by rucky:

could I have your saves please?

There you go: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dGnXumCOSkGcyfH0BVzu-DkJ7KyudgBe



This one is not the latest - a few hours later Argon Prime was taken over by an Armada. They even killed the Argon main carrier - which had no fighters -.-. So I had to roll back and check my options for saving at least Argon Prime (Argon & Teladi are my main factions for this gamestart).

As said - I myself wouldn't complain if the Argon lost a fair fight / war. But as it stands now the RNG seems to have given HOP an enormous armada of ships WHILE the Argon got none (they even didn't get a full complement of fighters for their main carrier). I suspect a serious imbalance in the games initial setup phase. The CORE sectors of the factions should be super-secure and have a standing force which doesn't roam around.

It just doesn't add up that HOP can steamroll 2 factions which have no direct border with the Xenon while the Xenon also invade HOP space ...


---

@Aeekto: good analysis!

[Sarevok]

I went somewhat emotional naming this topic but IMO it's something that should be fixed or at least looked at by developers. Maybe they can comment on this situation? I can see @eMYNOCK is answering here sometimes. Even if response gonna be "works as intended", I still would be grateful for it because it will somewhat clarify the situation.

[Tempered]

At first, I thought that this was a problem, but then realized that it really gets the player involved in the fight. At the very least, it provides plenty of destruction that the player can profit off of. The economy is based on ship building. If no one loses ships, then the economy stagnates.
Of all the x games, I'm having the most fun with this one. I feel much more involved in the outcome of the universe. It doesn't feel static. If you don't act, there will be consequences for not taking sides.

[lPaladinl]

Originally posted by Tempered:

At first, I thought that this was a problem, but then realized that it really gets the player involved in the fight. At the very least, it provides plenty of destruction that the player can profit off of. The economy is based on ship building. If no one loses ships, then the economy stagnates.
Of all the x games, I'm having the most fun with this one. I feel much more involved in the outcome of the universe. It doesn't feel static. If you don't act, there will be consequences for not taking sides.

You're not really given the choice to join any sides though. It's more like the game is forcing you to side with certain factions or else they get wiped out.

Personally I think that's bad balance, because it has such a high rate of resulting the same way.

[Tempered]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Originally posted by Tempered:

At first, I thought that this was a problem, but then realized that it really gets the player involved in the fight. At the very least, it provides plenty of destruction that the player can profit off of. The economy is based on ship building. If no one loses ships, then the economy stagnates.
Of all the x games, I'm having the most fun with this one. I feel much more involved in the outcome of the universe. It doesn't feel static. If you don't act, there will be consequences for not taking sides.

You're not really given the choice to join any sides though. It's more like the game is forcing you to side with certain factions or else they get wiped out.

Personally I think that's bad balance, because it has such a high rate of resulting the same way.

There is nothing stopping you from joining up with the HOP and bringing about their total domination. You can't join the xenon because they hate all living things. You can help any faction you like, except for the xenon and kha ak. Want the Teladi to rule? Do missions and trade only for the Teladi. Wipe out the other factions once you've taken out the aggressors.