X4: Foundations

X4: Foundations

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mar3usmc Jan 14, 2019 @ 11:10am
Travel Drive is too OP
I would like to see it changed. Have it not gradually give you speed, but suddenly after a 10second (variable) charge. It is just too easy to use it right now in place of boost, and makes it essentially impossible for enemies to escape you, or them to catch you. Universe just feels too safe with it.

Add in travel drive inhibitors too that can pull you out of the travel drive and force you to flee using a normal drive or stand and fight. Allow for you being able to use them too.
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Showing 31-45 of 49 comments
Rhophius Jan 19, 2019 @ 3:42am 
Originally posted by yongbing1:
Originally posted by mar3usmc:
I would like to see it changed. Have it not gradually give you speed, but suddenly after a 10second (variable) charge. It is just too easy to use it right now in place of boost, and makes it essentially impossible for enemies to escape you, or them to catch you. Universe just feels too safe with it.

Add in travel drive inhibitors too that can pull you out of the travel drive and force you to flee using a normal drive or stand and fight. Allow for you being able to use them too.
Agreed in total. Needs changing. My opinion is get rid of travel drive.

lol, yup nerf it for everyone because of short sightedness.
Berserk Belta Jan 19, 2019 @ 4:52am 
Originally posted by Blitz4:
Originally posted by CMDR Sweeper:
I say leave any travel mode in and invest the time on squashing nasty bugs that can end your game way too early.
...
This (fixing bugs) is way before you even think about balancing.
So say we all.

A 20km border seems silly and that not much thought was put into the idea. It's an 'exact' number. It assumes that we have identical radar information when in travel mode, in non-travel mode, and when sending radar pings. That shouldn't be the case. To explain why it's exactly 20km from a lore perspective for this or future games in the series, sounds difficult.

I want to mention how EVE Online and Elite Dangerous did travel drive. If you are unfamiliar with either of those two games, ask. EVE is very well thought out[wiki.eveuniversity.org] and Elite made a mini-game out of being interdicted. Does X4 need some mini-game, bubbles or something already done? No. Does something need to be done? Yes, but maybe not until the major bugs are fixed.

When the major bugs are fixed, presumably the AI will ever be able to hit the player ship if they're moving. Since a single hit drops you out of TM, that will mean you get interdicted by AI you go near.

Making it dependent on an EMP device rather than any beam/projectile/splash actually reduces the chance of being interdicted once the AI can hit you.

Disabling TM within a proximity bubble (especially one larger than weapons range!) prevents you or any updated AI from ever using travel mode in pursuit of a faster ship, effectively placing a wall in the game preventing combat that should be possible, and the player (or in theory an AI) is actively trying to pursue.

TM is a useful tool for running, pursuing etc. t stands to reason that systems with such a lot of economic activity would have ways for traders to try and avoid contact. There is no reason imo, in an X game, to go down the road of everything being super-easy to pirate. If I was going to nerf it at all, however, it would probably be in one or both of the following ways:

1. AI has a chance of hitting you
- because the player is not in the dogfight context dodging/attacking this doesn't even need complex AI work, it can simply be made to happen

2. Being jolted out of travel drive by weapons fire causes hull (not shield) damage.
- this means that a player can apply risk/reward to avoiding combat if they are playing as eg: a trader or explorer that day, even take pride in it, rather than trying to go all elite-balancey and drag everything into a combat situation

3. NPCs will sometimes attempt to pursue you using TM.
- this places the player in more danger, but creates a situation where good piloting can save your life. If you are dropped out, the AI drops out, then you steel yourself for a fight or use your superior flying skills to last the cooldown out and run again.
Last edited by Berserk Belta; Jan 19, 2019 @ 4:59am
eMYNOCK  [developer] Jan 19, 2019 @ 5:44am 
i do not know why but for some weird reason i remember a similar... not to say exact this discussion about the TM Drives.

and just from the impression i got after reading you all are refering to the C-Drives (C for Combat).

i want to give some thinking stuff.. but for that i need everyone to have the same knowledge that means.. here come the Tale of the 3 little Drive types:

First we have the Allrounder Drive, lets call him A-Drive.

This Drive has a Warmup Time from 2 - 30 Seconds, depending on Shipclass and the Mods you install, and has a medium Shield to Boost ratio.

Second is the C-Drive with no Warmup Time and a very efficient Shield to Boost ration, but it is the Slowest of all Drives in Travel Mode.

Last is the T-Drive, it has the longest Warmup Time, the worst Shield to Boost ration but it has the fastest Speed in TM Mode,


Thats the Technical Stuff.

Now to my Point, every Drive has a dedicated Field of usage with the C-Drive being excellent in Combat Situations, you are meant to use it instead of constant Boosting.
Sure, you can TM into a fight, cause some Damage, TM or Boost away, turn around and go for more.

The Allrounder is also usable for that Scenario but you are required to constantly look at your Shields and you simply can not TM out of Danger, plain and simple.

The Travel Drive is, as already said, the Drive with the worst Shield to Boost ratio.
That means, you slightly tap the Boost Key and thats it, your shields are gone.

This Drive is meant for Freighters and Couriers, it is meant to bring the Ship and its cargo as fast as possible from A to B, if you happen to get caught with a T-Drive equipped you better pray for backup.

All that said...
I suggest you all experiment with the various Drives to experience their benefits and drawbacks.

Regards and Profits.
Hakgova Jan 19, 2019 @ 4:04pm 
Originally posted by yongbing1:
Originally posted by mar3usmc:
I would like to see it changed. Have it not gradually give you speed, but suddenly after a 10second (variable) charge. It is just too easy to use it right now in place of boost, and makes it essentially impossible for enemies to escape you, or them to catch you. Universe just feels too safe with it.

Add in travel drive inhibitors too that can pull you out of the travel drive and force you to flee using a normal drive or stand and fight. Allow for you being able to use them too.
Agreed in total. Needs changing. My opinion is get rid of travel drive.

If you really believe that they should get rid of travel drive, I suggest you try an extended game of your own where you yourself do not use it. Getting rid of TM would mean LONG travel times around the galaxy sectors. Not good. TM is not a combat mode per se. It is a TRAVEL mode.
ImHelping Jan 19, 2019 @ 7:26pm 
Originally posted by Hakgova:
Originally posted by yongbing1:
Agreed in total. Needs changing. My opinion is get rid of travel drive.

If you really believe that they should get rid of travel drive, I suggest you try an extended game of your own where you yourself do not use it. Getting rid of TM would mean LONG travel times around the galaxy sectors. Not good. TM is not a combat mode per se. It is a TRAVEL mode.
Most people saying 'get rid of travel drive!' probably have a cushy office ordering their empire with SETA turned on on the regular.

Or doesn't realize that doing so negates all circle jerk "I love a challenge!" claims by just encouraging boring and 'well, if I'm not allowed to fly worth a damn anyways, why fly at all?"

The sort of person who mistakes irritation for MEANINGFUL challenge. You need a reason beyond 'I made hardur. game guudur!' or you end up looking like the sort of person who tries and fails to imitate Darksouls because they don't grasp Souls games give you the strongest healing item of all time among other conveniences people only looking for bragging rights hate to admit.

Plus it would mostly be padding for the early game or anyone only punishing to people who enjoys flying smaller craft around like a space limo even when mega rich.

"It's so much more CHALLENGING now that travel drive is ♥♥♥♥♥♥!"

"Hello, I'm in a ship so big that these random small craft pirates preventing me from going fast can't ever possibly hurt me. All that has been accomplished is bogging the game down."

"Clearly we should buff the AI to be able to single out the player ship specifically! Challenge challenge challenge"

"welp. I moved into an office desk to run my empire. Now I don't even need regular drive, or a ship for myself. Why do we even have space ships if people hate having fun in space ships so much?"

"Make the AI have a +200% bonus in OOS combat! I need my bragging rights-I mean, for challenge."

But seriously. X series is a space empire game. It's already hard enough giving people a reason to personally fly around once you get rolling that isn't down to "The AI is too dumb to do this itself". ("Boss, the space staion is UP! help! how to sattelite?!")

So activley discouraging the desire to do anything personally with arbitrary "But I think it would be more challenging if-" doesn't accomplish anythng but dumb down the game. Unless you think the only reason to fly is to demand praise for doing the most basic task in a space ship game.
Last edited by ImHelping; Jan 19, 2019 @ 7:57pm
Aieonae Jan 19, 2019 @ 7:39pm 
You will see the fore-mentioned spooling on larger vessels, also travel drive is disable if you are being shot(and will not engage) till you distance yourself from the conflict of stop getting shot by killing the enemy.
Blitz4 Jan 19, 2019 @ 8:18pm 
In X3, you had to wait 10+ seconds for the Jump Drive to spool up. If you could survive those 10 seconds, you were safe. That's not really the issue.

X3 or XR never had a Travel Drive, so there was never a need to pull you out of it. X4 should have some way for AI to pull you out of Travel Drive, they have a Travel Drive of their own. But still, that's not really the issue.

For me, I'm mostly using the Travel Drive to explore the entire universe to completion. The more stations you discover, the better deals you can make. Using the Travel Drive to scout sectors is boring. Exploration feels unfinished. In X3 you'd pop an advanced sat down and be done with it. In X4 you have to travel to every single point of the universe to explore it to 100%, but doing so is too repetitive.

You'd like it if the enemy, near the edge of the sector, tackled you and gave you something interesting todo. But you're not going to stop TD to fight that enemy, it takes far too long to speed up to 8500. I'd rather them fix the big bugs, fix all of the AI commands, fix the AI Explore command so I don't have to do all of this stupid exploration manually. Or, option B, charge more for adv sats and have them auto-reveal the entire sector, including what's beyond the sector boundries. I don't want to explore beyond the sector's boundries, it's boring out there, have the AI or an adv sat do it.
DrSuperGood Jan 20, 2019 @ 12:24am 
X3 or XR never had a Travel Drive, so there was never a need to pull you out of it. X4 should have some way for AI to pull you out of Travel Drive, they have a Travel Drive of their own. But still, that's not really the issue.
Actually XR did have travel drives... All L and XL ships used them to move around sectors at insane speeds. They also had wind up, like they do in X4...

But you're not going to stop TD to fight that enemy, it takes far too long to speed up to 8500.
It takes my Pegasus Vanguard roughly 15 seconds to reach that speed. With a top speed of 15km/sec. Not a combat ship but at that speed you can get anywhere you want in no time at all. If you want combat order another slower ship like a Nemesis to your combat area while you keep exploring and teleport to it when it arrives.
Rhophius Jan 20, 2019 @ 2:32am 
Originally posted by Hakgova:
Originally posted by yongbing1:
Agreed in total. Needs changing. My opinion is get rid of travel drive.

If you really believe that they should get rid of travel drive, I suggest you try an extended game of your own where you yourself do not use it. Getting rid of TM would mean LONG travel times around the galaxy sectors. Not good. TM is not a combat mode per se. It is a TRAVEL mode.

This would also totally cripple the trade system AI in the game to a point where it would take days to complete simple trades without the aid of SETA, so removing travel mode would be the most idiotic idea for a game where the trade system AI is unrealiable enough as it is.
Archarius Jan 20, 2019 @ 3:17am 
Originally posted by Xautos:
Originally posted by lordmarkhan2:
U can already be interdicted sometime im on travel drive and it stop i dunno why but it can be a missile or just because he shot me a little

i've already intercepted a number of ships, i've also been intercepted a few times. it takes a few seconds, but once you got the AI ship turned around, you can stand on the travel mode in a smaller ship without the coundown timer and escape before the AI can swing back around for another attack. Best time to do it is when the AI is boosting away and then hit the travel mode.

i think a better option is to disallow any use of the travel drive when in a battle zone of 20KM, this prevents you from escaping quickly and you'd be forced to flee by boost at the right moment to gain range, or you swat down the target. in larger battles it forces you to adapt and to take as little damage as you can.

Just so it isn't impossible to escape when you think certain death is coming? you have a rechargable one time escape mode, every 30 minutes it is recharged and ready to use again. you gain temporary invulerability to attack and you'd boost from the warzone to just a little over 24KM out, however your shields remain offline and your travel mode speed is slashed by a third temporarily and your weapons go offline for 3 minutes as the ships system recharges tfrom the serious drain during the escape mode.
Range limit is a bad idea. Cooldown on using travel mode again is sounds better.
Starbucaneer Jan 20, 2019 @ 5:24am 
So don't use the travel mode to jump away.

Originally posted by Scoob:
Doesn't ANY hit from weapon fire cancel Travel Drive? I use this method frequently to force enemies to drop to normal speeds to be engaged effectively. I've also been shot out of Travel Mode myself numerous times when an AI has done it to me...though that's far less frequent.

Scoob.
Yep happens to me all the time!
Starbucaneer Jan 20, 2019 @ 5:26am 
Surely it will only over powered (to you) if you use it ;-)
mar3usmc Jan 20, 2019 @ 6:26am 
You all are using the travel drive incorrectly. Don't simply just activate it. Use your boost first, then activate it once you get up to speed. You don't need to be at 100% travel drive speed, but you basically don't have to "Spool" once you get up there a bit. This is why I am simply saying there needs to be a mandatory activation time, regardless of ship size. Currently, travel drive is basically being used as an infinite boost, which is OP and crap.

Again, you are all using it incorrectly. Boost -> Travel Drive. It costs you hardly any shields with a combat drive, and you, basically, get an infinite boost, which is very OP in combat. This kills any possibility of you ever being killed unless you are completely careless. i.e. there is zero combat challange in this "game", and, therefore, combat in the game is utterly boring.
Rhophius Jan 20, 2019 @ 7:06am 
Travel drive can be used to drift like in elite disabling flight assist.
Aieonae Jan 20, 2019 @ 7:32am 
Originally posted by mar3usmc:
You all are using the travel drive incorrectly. Don't simply just activate it. Use your boost first, then activate it once you get up to speed. You don't need to be at 100% travel drive speed, but you basically don't have to "Spool" once you get up there a bit. This is why I am simply saying there needs to be a mandatory activation time, regardless of ship size. Currently, travel drive is basically being used as an infinite boost, which is OP and crap.

Again, you are all using it incorrectly. Boost -> Travel Drive. It costs you hardly any shields with a combat drive, and you, basically, get an infinite boost, which is very OP in combat. This kills any possibility of you ever being killed unless you are completely careless. i.e. there is zero combat challange in this "game", and, therefore, combat in the game is utterly boring.

erhhh, clearly I have not enough shield to boost before even the spooling can be complete for my capital vessel...

wait I uses mk 2 shield whenever I can find...

ermm guess you are only referring to smaller S vessels then.

likewise as you troubled with as of now there is no requirement for spooling S vessels, but it does not means it really OP.

Do mind capital Mk 2 TD are able to overtake low to mid range S or M vessels TD speed, making it speedier option to project a deployment 3 dozen S vessels.

As foremention, I understand chasing a S vessels is particularly annoying affair, use protect station "net" to catch them the can be rather useful.

Combat in X4 is more akin to RTS than actual space combat alone.
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Date Posted: Jan 14, 2019 @ 11:10am
Posts: 49