Cant trade between my own stations.

[Dred]

I have a S/M Wharf which has all the required production modules to produce ships and is largely self sufficient.

It does run low on hull parts as the Teladi order an endless stream of ships. I didnt want to add more modules to the giant station as its required workforce is already just over 8000 (I have about 5000).

I thought id build a couple of supporting stations for wears like hull parts which run dry quickly.

No matter what I do I cannot get the traders from either the wharf or the supporting factories to auto trade with each other when production wears get low.

Most traders attached to the wharf are running small amounts of wheat, meat, energy cells (which is itself infuriating) and not going to buy hull parts and microchips from the support factory which is close by in the next sector.

When the wharf traders are "searching for trades" I can see the default behaviour switches to autotrade the wear which the wharf needs, in this case "hull parts" but they never go to my hull part factory which has multiple thousands of them.

My only workaround is to frequently check what the wharf needs and send one of the idling transporters to go get them. Surely thats not intended.

All we really need is a resupply behaviour for ships attached to stations and an option to "only resupply from own faction."

Additonal info:

Wharf has a 5 star manager.
Global order for auto resupply set to medium.

[Gregorovitch]

I don't know if you've tried this but most folks that have had success with running a decentralised setup do so by:

1. Blocking sales of supplier station to other factions
2. Setting sell price at supplier station to minimum
3. Blocking purchase of required product at consuming station from other factions
4. Setting buy price of required wares at consuming station to maximum

That way the supplier station's traders will run the required wares across (basically 'cos the price difference makes it a good trade and they can't sell to anyone else anyway).

Of course this is probably not what you want to do. You probably just want a "supplier station ship wares to consumer station (i,.e. warf in your case) if it's short on stock as priority otherwise just trade normally" type thing. Unfortunately that's difficult to pull off reliably under current rules because the supplier station's traders won't necessarily see the consumer station's (i.e. your warf) deals as the "best".

Currently this sort of thing works best if you go whole hog decentralised with dedicated supplier stations making intermediate products for end product producing stations and not selling to other factions. The situation you're in is a kind of half way house between a self-sufficient mega-plex setup and a decentralised one (which is basically your problem). There is a new trading rule system coming in 3.2 (beta currently available now) which may provide a solution for you. I haven't tried it out yet so I can't be sure.

[Dred]

Originally posted by Gregorovitch:

I don't know if you've tried this but most folks that have had success with running a decentralised setup do so by:

1. Blocking sales of supplier station to other factions
2. Setting sell price at supplier station to minimum
3. Blocking purchase of required product at consuming station from other factions
4. Setting buy price of required wares at consuming station to maximum

Since my OP this is what Ive been experimenting with.

Yeah if I restrict faction trade with 'supplier station' output and drop the sale price to minimum then wears start moving. I doubled down and restricted trade on that wear within the wharf and set max buy price. Its flowing now. Still not sure it will keep up with the teladi demand.... hull parts go in an immediately disappear :)

You're right its not what I wanted to do. Just wanted my traders to priortize wears. Buy hey, if those fighters keep leaving the wharf who cares!

I suppose with the way the game economy works if Id loaded those feeder stations with heaps of storage and production models of the needed wear the price would have dropped to a point where my traders started doing it anyway.

Ill say it again all we need is a Role to designate a trader as being for resupply only. So when assigning as trader to station you can get it for:

Build storage ,
Trader, or
Resupply - with an option to include specific wears.

[Cythal]

With the upcoming 3.20 update, there is a:

New Feature: Trade Rules enable improved control over station trade offers, station supply offers and sale of ships

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/discussions/0/3609015062300841338/

You can see this in action at about 48 mins into the live stream video.
https://youtu.be/zm4yTLTg2t0?t=2894

Previously, your faction was not selectable when making trade restrictions. Now it is part of the list.

If you listen more to that trade part of the video you will hear them say that one of the most requested feature was to be able to use trade stations to only sell wares to other factions while other stations trades internally and then excess goes to trade station to trade with factions.

Hence why they have implemented this. You should be able to trade with your own stations once the update goes live. You can try the beta by following the instructions on the first link i posted. Remember to back up saves.

[Knightwolf]

Take one of your trade ships,do not assign it to your station But set it as to the default behavior of "Distribute Wares" and select the ware you want to distribute IE: Hull Parts. Set the stations buy/sell as the first post suggest. Also create a blacklist for the trader to only trade with you by black listing all other factions.

[Dred]

Originally posted by Cythal:

With the upcoming 3.20 update, there is a:

New Feature: Trade Rules enable improved control over station trade offers, station supply offers and sale of ships

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/discussions/0/3609015062300841338/

You can see this in action at about 48 mins into the live stream video.
https://youtu.be/zm4yTLTg2t0?t=2894

Previously, your faction was not selectable when making trade restrictions. Now it is part of the list.

If you listen more to that trade part of the video you will hear them say that one of the most requested feature was to be able to use trade stations to only sell wares to other factions while other stations trades internally and then excess goes to trade station to trade with factions.

Hence why they have implemented this. You should be able to trade with your own stations once the update goes live. You can try the beta by following the instructions on the first link i posted. Remember to back up saves.

aaaaaand this is why I love Egosoft.

It may take them a while buy they always make their games brilliant.

[Dred]

Originally posted by Knightwolf:

Take one of your trade ships,do not assign it to your station But set it as to the default behavior of "Distribute Wares" and select the ware you want to distribute IE: Hull Parts. Set the stations buy/sell as the first post suggest. Also create a blacklist for the trader to only trade with you by black listing all other factions.

Genius.

[DewOrDie]

Great workaround for basic missing feature that should be in game, or scenario explained - can also recommend "Mule supply" mod that gives many
more options..

[Dedmoin]

Originally posted by Cythal:

With the upcoming 3.20 update, there is a:

New Feature: Trade Rules enable improved control over station trade offers, station supply offers and sale of ships

https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/discussions/0/3609015062300841338/

You can see this in action at about 48 mins into the live stream video.
https://youtu.be/zm4yTLTg2t0?t=2894

Previously, your faction was not selectable when making trade restrictions. Now it is part of the list.

If you listen more to that trade part of the video you will hear them say that one of the most requested feature was to be able to use trade stations to only sell wares to other factions while other stations trades internally and then excess goes to trade station to trade with factions.

Hence why they have implemented this. You should be able to trade with your own stations once the update goes live. You can try the beta by following the instructions on the first link i posted. Remember to back up saves.

i can think of varios ways on setting up trade rules and buy / sell offers.
but what how can i adjust storage amounts?

Stations buy until buy limit is reached and sell what is above sell limit.
Sell limit cannot be below buy limit.
so:

- if sell limit and buy limit are at eg 1000 means the station buys until reaching 1000 and sells everyhing above this mark, but it will not go beyond 1000 as buying stopped.

- if sell limit (1100) is above buy limit (900), buying stops at 900 and selling starts as 1100, basically never

- sell limit below buy limit is not possible

- sell and buy limits are set to out. since trade stations don't need to have production modules, the buy limit is set to 0 since no demand for this ware

do I miss something?

[Cythal]

Hello Dedmoin,

Go to Logical Overview and select the drop down menu of the goods you want to manage. Example Refined Metals in my screenshot:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2095273949

Deselect both Automatic Buy Amount and Automatic Sell Amount.

The tool tips tell you that:

Automatic Buy Amount -> "The manager will create buy offers until stock levels reach this amount"
Automatic Sell Amount -> "The manager will create sell offers as long as stock levels remain above this amount"

So using that I can tell the station to sell anything above the production per hour stock levels but create buy offers when stock is dangerously below the consumption per hour stock levels. As shown in my screenshot.

I hope this helps you to tinker with that settings to achieve what you asked about.

[Dedmoin]

Originally posted by Cythal:

Hello Dedmoin,

Go to Logical Overview and select the drop down menu of the goods you want to manage. Example Refined Metals in my screenshot:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2095273949

Deselect both Automatic Buy Amount and Automatic Sell Amount.

The tool tips tell you that:

Automatic Buy Amount -> "The manager will create buy offers until stock levels reach this amount"
Automatic Sell Amount -> "The manager will create sell offers as long as stock levels remain above this amount"

So using that I can tell the station to sell anything above the production per hour stock levels but create buy offers when stock is dangerously below the consumption per hour stock levels. As shown in my screenshot.

I hope this helps you to tinker with that settings to achieve what you asked about.

Hi Cythal,

Thanks a lot for your answer.

I am aware of the limits to regulate the buys and sell based on utilized storage.

You mentioned trade rules as an enabler for trade stations. For me, trade stations are stations without produciton module, basically consisting of docks and storage. Their purpose is a central hub of collecting and distributing ware with the possibilty to act as proxy.

For example I can build a trading stration two sectors away of my factor. The trading station would collect my wares and sell them two sectors away, bringing the wares to more potential buyers with less travelling time making a trade more attractive (I assume).

I don't know why someone would want to restrict the trading station only to buy from own factories, missing additional revenue by buying low from AI and selling at higher prices.

I already wanted to setup such an 'open' trading station, buying from whoever is offering cheap and selling to whoever wants to pay more.

But...
It is not possible, since the station will only buy "until stock levels reach this amount".
And it will only sell "as long as stock levels remain above this amount"
It is not possible to have sell stock level below buy stock level. This setting is made for factories that have to have minimum level of resources (ie buy limit) and sell surplus resources (ie sell limit).
0 ... 5: buy limit ... 10: sell limit
The (trading) station stops to buy when reaching 5 wares and sells everything above 10 wares. But the stock will never rise above 5 because the (trading) station removed buy offers. No buy offer, no wares are delivered from own or other stations.

In my understanding trading station will not work, regardless of trading rules (which I very welcome by the way ^^).

What am I missing?

[Cythal]

Hmm...if i understand correctly...

You want a trading station that continues to buy even beyond the buy or sell limit and continues to sell even if the ware reaches 1 or zero of that ware.

I do not have a definite answer to give now. I suggest we wait for the update and see what we can and cannot do.

[Dedmoin]

I just want a station buying and selling :)

Normally I would say:
buy everyhing you can until my storage are full (limit is set to max)
sell everything I have my storage is empty (limit is set to min)
> sell should be less then buy

> but sell cannot be less then buy
so this cannot work

but the developer mentioned trade feature rules is one part to enable trade stations... but trade stations cannot work

it's really a pitty, I really wanted those trade station :D

I am already using 3.20 with the new trade rule feature

[Cythal]

I hate to derail this post. Perhaps create a new post about this specific question. And also give feedback to the Egosoft about it. That you want to be able to set sell amount lower than buy amount.

However I do not think that your set up is Logical given the way the game sets prices based on volume of wares and average price.

I actually think the automatic feature actually achieves your purpose. The manager adjusts stock levels automatically and buys and sells based on trade offers within its reach and you do not have to worry about anything. As for profit, this will be beyond your control and will be random.

If you are not producing the good, your profit margins is more likely to be very small and you may even have loses. I can see it mathematically, explaining it will make this a very very long post.

If i can in some sentences this is what i see.

The automatic manager buys, then volume goes up, buy price goes down, sell price also go down. The only way you will be able to make profit is if your manager finds a trade offer to sell a higher volume of ware at that price to offset the amount it bought that increased the volume and reduced selling price. And again, you need to have some of that ware already before your manager made the buy that decreased sell price due to volume increase.

If you want to avoid small profit margins or loses you will have to adjust buy and sell prices manually. And doing that also locks you out of other price margins that do not meet your manually set price. So very tedious.

The AI is not human and is not able to scan the trade offers and select an average or low price for the wares that it has at almost full stock.

My best guess to achieve this is to build your trade station. Create buy offer, buy to maximum, Turn off buy offer and create sell offer to sell to minimum stock levels.

[Dred]

Originally posted by Knightwolf:

Take one of your trade ships,do not assign it to your station But set it as to the default behavior of "Distribute Wares" and select the ware you want to distribute IE: Hull Parts. Set the stations buy/sell as the first post suggest. Also create a blacklist for the trader to only trade with you by black listing all other factions.

Mate, this works like a charm as well. I have a desig resupply fleet now.
Awesome for training sub 3 star pilots as well.

Cheers

[Dedmoin]

Originally posted by Cythal:

I hate to derail this post. Perhaps create a new post about this specific question. And also give feedback to the Egosoft about it. That you want to be able to set sell amount lower than buy amount.

However I do not think that your set up is Logical given the way the game sets prices based on volume of wares and average price.

I actually think the automatic feature actually achieves your purpose. The manager adjusts stock levels automatically and buys and sells based on trade offers within its reach and you do not have to worry about anything. As for profit, this will be beyond your control and will be random.

If you are not producing the good, your profit margins is more likely to be very small and you may even have loses. I can see it mathematically, explaining it will make this a very very long post.

If i can in some sentences this is what i see.

The automatic manager buys, then volume goes up, buy price goes down, sell price also go down. The only way you will be able to make profit is if your manager finds a trade offer to sell a higher volume of ware at that price to offset the amount it bought that increased the volume and reduced selling price. And again, you need to have some of that ware already before your manager made the buy that decreased sell price due to volume increase.

If you want to avoid small profit margins or loses you will have to adjust buy and sell prices manually. And doing that also locks you out of other price margins that do not meet your manually set price. So very tedious.

The AI is not human and is not able to scan the trade offers and select an average or low price for the wares that it has at almost full stock.

My best guess to achieve this is to build your trade station. Create buy offer, buy to maximum, Turn off buy offer and create sell offer to sell to minimum stock levels.

Your lengthy reply is much appreciated.
You are probably right by hijacking this thread with this question. I didn't expect it became so much text :D

Thanks again for your reply. You are explaining considerations all about prices. Those limits can be set freely, buy price < sell price or buy price > sell price. No problem to set buy price to eg <50 and sell price >100 and everything between is net win. Technically possible in the logic station overview.

Cheers