What are the drives / endgame of this title?

[マルコ]

Was considering if it was worth the purchase, a thing that I hated in previous chapters is that they always only give you the scaffolding of a game before moving on to the next title.
What I mean is, you build an economic empire, but why? What can you do with this money?
Maybe you use it to purchase ships, but why? What can you do with a fleet? There are wars going on or shifts in power and conquering mechanics that would justify doing any of this?
That's also the reason why the series is often referred to as a "sandbox", because it lacks that core end-game mechanics that would justify everything else one would do.

So what is the current situation with X4? Has any of this changed, or is still the same old static sandbox?

[stevenbanks1]

Still static

[eMYNOCK]

Originally posted by stevenbanks1:

Still static

not static but still a Sandbox.

@Marcus

I honestly do not think that you would enjoy X4, my advise... save your Money and look around for Games wich are more appealing for you.

It simply makes no sense to buy a Game (that is meant for entertainment) that you eventually won't enjoy.

[76561198861956260]

Yes, there are wars between the factions and you can actively engage in one these wars or start your own one. You can conquer sectors as well.

The AI tries to conquer sectors and build stations on economical demand. They are not directly competing with the player, though. The economy works very well in this game.

Then there are the Xenon who try to destroy basically everything in the universe. Their ships are relatively beefy and need some special tactics to take down.

Also the whole game is based on ressources and materials. Nothing gets spawned in but is or was built from raw ressources, besides ships from Pirates and Khaak. So you can actively cut supply lines of other factions. Crippling their economy. Hindering their ship building capabilities.

There is a lot to do but in the end there is always an "end" by definition. Eventually, everyone outplays the universe at some point.

[Big Papa]

the object is to carve an empire out of universe filled with warring factions. I guess end game would be to own all the sectors, while being at peace with all the friendly factions, because they would have to live in your sectors, and also be able to repel Xenon because they will never stop attacking.

[Defektiv]

You hit the game world in an established universe but from that point on the game is a true sandbox. You can do nothing at all. You can fly around as a casual transient, picking crystals off asteroids and selling them at the nearest station. You can find a supply need and set up a small station, making a small fortune while existing under the protection of an established faction. Or you can go all out and become the most sophisticated supply chain in the universe, with traders you need to protect, mining operations that need to be successful and forward operating bases to protect assets outside of your little empire. You can even take over areas of space and make them literally yours. You can build shipyards and put factions out of business. You can make or break their existences and if you're really feeling ambitious, you can go set up your empire in Xenon space.

But if you can't make any of that happen its not the games fault. It gives you the options it doesn't force you to choose what to do or not to do. You're not going to get an anime chick with an overly fake voice showing you a sparkling path to the finish line. That's not how these games have ever worked.

[Axeface]

For me the stories in the previous games gave context to the goals I made for myself, I learned about the lore of this franchise and with that knowledge set myself goals (like wiping out the split). In X4 the stories arnt there so I have to rely on the previous games to fill in the gaping holes.

As far as gameplay is concerned, X4 ( 3.0 ) does it better than any of the previous games, factions are actually expanding now and wars seem like wars - this gives all that context I have from previous games a lot of weight. Xenon are threatening the whole network too which is exciting.

For me if X4 had the Boron and a decent plot to do, it would really start being a game that I would truely enjoy for a looot of hours, currently its an early access experience which I despise, always looking at patch notes and waiting for the next one - with 3.0 full release and SV I might start enjoying myself. If X4 got an injection of Rebirths design, like a shift to adding a lot or corporations and more lore, it would be very very good - ide probably be playing it in 15 years time.

Maybe you use it to purchase ships, but why? What can you do with a fleet? There are wars going on or shifts in power and conquering mechanics that would justify doing any of this?

There has always been conquering mechanics for the player. Now in 3.0 the factions actually are warring and expanding (I hope it isnt faked or scripted).

[マルコ]

I'm receiving mixed messages, so I think I'll wait maybe half-year/one year before taking it again into consideration.
Another concern I had is: is the universe worth exploring for the visuals? Like Rebirth had a lot of interesting and different evironments, but from random footage of X4 I always see the same pitch black universe, not sure if I just happen to always see footage from the starting area or if the whole place is like that

[Aeekto]

Originally posted by Marcus:

Was considering if it was worth the purchase, a thing that I hated in previous chapters is that they always only give you the scaffolding of a game before moving on to the next title.
What I mean is, you build an economic empire, but why? What can you do with this money?
Maybe you use it to purchase ships, but why? What can you do with a fleet? There are wars going on or shifts in power and conquering mechanics that would justify doing any of this?
That's also the reason why the series is often referred to as a "sandbox", because it lacks that core end-game mechanics that would justify everything else one would do.

So what is the current situation with X4? Has any of this changed, or is still the same old static sandbox?

It seems sandbox games aren't for you, because they never will have nor need any endgame.... you just make your own goals.

You're more the "story only" type of player so you should look out for those games and maybe even blacklist the tag sandbox at the shop to avoid any disappointment.

[マルコ]

Originally posted by Aeekto:

It seems sandbox games aren't for you, because they never will have nor need any endgame.... you just make your own goals.

Well I don't know about that, I have played previous chapters quite a lot:
X3:Terran Conflict 188hrs
X3:Albion Prelude 174hrs
X Rebirth 428hrs
and this without even counting the time played before Steam.
Sandbox is a very generic term, there are various shades of it and is not a binary thing "sandbox good, sandbox bad" so imo doesn't make much sense guessing if one would like a game or not based on a term that generic.
Talking more specific, I can enjoy the empire building part, starting with nothing and building toward something, I enjoy that part but inevitably always end up hating the anticlimactic end of it, I mean you raise all that money and a fleet, the only fitting end would be something like the chance to go and erase the Xenon main base from the universe (and notice is not mandatory, I'm talking just about the possibility to do so, which would keep the game still being a sandbox), but instead when you reach a high enough level of money, you're done and you can turn off the game for good, that's not a cool ending to it at all.
So yeah, I won't say I don't like a sandbox game because my hours above proves otherwise, I simply don't like the anticlimactic conclusion I always had with this games, which is also why I consider them static. Basically is a sandbox that doesn't offer enough freedom, and the latter part is the problem.
I don't know if this sector conquer you guys mention is the thing I am missing, I guess I can only find out by trying myself, but I won't pay the game full price on a bet like this, since it might turn out the thing I feel missing in the game is not quite that still.

[Navy~]

hey Marcus, i know exactly how you feel, i feel the exact same thing. In previous games you had a plot, step by step you had to build and expand to meet the requirements to be able to complete that said plot, now you don't have any of that. You build you make big fleets and then you quit becouse you dont have some outside thing like a big thing happening in some ... 100 hours later lets say. In X3 there was alot of mods that changed that, and making you prepare for that said invasion , or some rival corporation that did pretty much what you did and inevitably you got in conflict with it, that was nice. Sure you can declare war on everybody and call it a day, but are there any mechanics to take control of a sector or name your sectors or change the colours of those sectors to really make your own ? or is that just in your head ? In my opinion, the game need to see you as an empire , not a guy, and improve along those lines, put in place some mechanics to interact with the other empires.

[Axeface]

Originally posted by Marcus:

I'm receiving mixed messages, so I think I'll wait maybe half-year/one year before taking it again into consideration.
Another concern I had is: is the universe worth exploring for the visuals? Like Rebirth had a lot of interesting and different evironments, but from random footage of X4 I always see the same pitch black universe, not sure if I just happen to always see footage from the starting area or if the whole place is like that

The sectors in 3.0 are more vibrant than the current live version but they are no way near the depth and interest of rebirths im afraid, and never will be - its a design issue not a visual one. Rebirths sector design doesnt get enough credit, its brilliant.

[phrozen1]

Originally posted by Marcus:

Sandbox is a very generic term...

Yeah i must say "sandbox" seem like more of a excuse for the clearly unfinished state X4 got released in.
I had my fun with it but it clearly lacks "soul" and "immersion".
Reasons to take a side in the wars etc..
Why should i like/dislike a faction?
Much of the game just feels generic.
I hope many of this is gonna be added with the dlc's.

And i hope those damn immersion-breaking highways get removed... :D

It's still a good game though

[Demandred]

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

Originally posted by stevenbanks1:

Still static

not static but still a Sandbox.

@Marcus

I honestly do not think that you would enjoy X4, my advise... save your Money and look around for Games wich are more appealing for you.

It simply makes no sense to buy a Game (that is meant for entertainment) that you eventually won't enjoy.

like are u seriouse, a dev? xD i mean many ppl ask for a straight line into this game, which provides an endgame, adding such stuff doesnt defeat sandbox, sandbox can still have a endgame goal which is added in a content patch. Why ont u just listen and add something what would attract more play, i play this game and still would love such stuff on top....
U are the dev, if my gamer would like to win every single one sector, just add a mechanic like a new cluster of zones will appear where all the resources combined of the faction do a coalation and create massive fleets out of for u nothing, but u can still think that perhaps the planets proviing resources or whatnot even if its not implamented for the player

[merusalem]

Originally posted by Demandred:

Originally posted by eMYNOCK:

not static but still a Sandbox.

@Marcus

I honestly do not think that you would enjoy X4, my advise... save your Money and look around for Games wich are more appealing for you.

It simply makes no sense to buy a Game (that is meant for entertainment) that you eventually won't enjoy.

like are u seriouse, a dev? xD i mean many ppl ask for a straight line into this game, which provides an endgame, adding such stuff doesnt defeat sandbox, sandbox can still have a endgame goal which is added in a content patch. Why ont u just listen and add something what would attract more play, i play this game and still would love such stuff on top....
U are the dev, if my gamer would like to win every single one sector, just add a mechanic like a new cluster of zones will appear where all the resources combined of the faction do a coalation and create massive fleets out of for u nothing, but u can still think that perhaps the planets proviing resources or whatnot even if its not implamented for the player

I understand where you are coming from, Demandred. I was there a few years ago.

Still, I appreciate it - a lot - when a dev honestly advises a player not to play his game, seeing that it would probably be no fun for them.

Having played quite some previous X games, I take eMYNOCK to say that EGOSOFT is just not interested in providing the type of gameplay Marcus is looking for.

I tip my hat to eMYNOCK for saying this out loud. It took me years to grasp the concept that EGOSOFT just has different development goals, which do not match my own gaming goals. Advice lite eMYNOCK's is worth gold, from my point of view; not just measured in bucks, but foremost in saving Marcus a portion of his life time.

[merusalem]

Originally posted by Marcus:

Was considering if it was worth the purchase, a thing that I hated in previous chapters is that they always only give you the scaffolding of a game before moving on to the next title.
What I mean is, you build an economic empire, but why? What can you do with this money?
Maybe you use it to purchase ships, but why? What can you do with a fleet? There are wars going on or shifts in power and conquering mechanics that would justify doing any of this?
That's also the reason why the series is often referred to as a "sandbox", because it lacks that core end-game mechanics that would justify everything else one would do.

So what is the current situation with X4? Has any of this changed, or is still the same old static sandbox?

Marcus, seeing that you crave for end game: If you have not done so yet, you may want to look into EVE Online. It is the most end-game-oriented space game I have ever come across.

Not that I like EVE for its game mechanics. Its mechanics are awful, in my opinion. But it just cannot be beat for long-term goals.

If you decide to try it (for free), invest some time in researching which play style you think will be your favorite:
- Fighting huge battles with hundreds or thousand of ships, which have to be planned for weeks or months,
- small gang skirmishes, which you can initiate on a moment's notice,
- constructing and selling ships,
- becoming rich as a market broker, and investing that money into another area,
- learning the (in-game and player) skills to be a shadow that strikes at the most opportune moment,
- becoming a spy that will nuke the world's most powerful alliance with the flip of a switch, after investing the effort for three or four years' time,
- or any of the other few dozens play styles.

Once you built a long-term goal, see who can help you achieve it.