X4: Foundations

X4: Foundations

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Lymark Dec 12, 2018 @ 5:21am
Is it not worth making and selling smart chips?
I just realized that smart chips is only worth ~$200, whereas one of its needed ingredients, silicon wafers, is worth ~$300.
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Showing 16-30 of 53 comments
WilsonKingofPrussia Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:56am 
Originally posted by Rex:
Originally posted by omni3891:
I don't understand what's happening in my universe. There is a massive demand for Smart Chips and I have factories making them like crazy, but for some reason they aren't trading like I would expect them to. Everyone seems to come for the Wafers and my traders assigned to those station are just out trading the Wafers. When I eaither tell my traders to only deal in Smarts Chips or I restrict trade on Wafers, I get the same result. My traders sitting there with the thumbs up thier asses and no one is coming to buy the Chips. In Antigone there is over 100k buy orders for the Chips and yet the goods arent moving.

I must be missing some piece of the logic to the trading in this game, because if there was that much demand for a product and I suddenly started cranking them out then I would have a hard time keeping up with the demand.

Do I need an army of traders assigned to the station? Have thousands in stock so they send the big haulers? Kind of at a loss here...

The traders, you assign to a station, only trade in the same sector. It seems to be a bug, i think. If you want to trade to stations in other sectors, you need to do it manually or you need to setup a autotrader, that has the buy range 0 and a sell range, so that he can reach the sector you want to sell it. Also, you need to set the product he should trade to smart chips.



I am having this exact problem, just spent 10's of millions on smart chip complex, the demand is massive, but NO AI ships come to buy the chips (they'll buy/sell the raw goods...), and i cant seem to get my traders to only trade for smart chips. Rather then selling the chips, theyll sell ENERGY CELLS to a station across the map, and only 160 of them, its laughable. Upon trying to deselect the raw good, and leaving only smart chips in the behavior tab after assigning them to trade for the station, the ship will do a trade and the behavior will immedietly revert to trading for all wears at the station. Only way its worked for me is to manually make each trade, and you cant even select multiple ships at once and give one trade order!

I want to say this is a bug. Why would the trader choose to make a 160 energy cell run, rather then selling the main product? I have everything but smart chips set to restrict trade from other factions, there is GREAT demand for smart chips, and my station is full of them!
DrSuperGood Jan 21, 2019 @ 2:39am 
In worst case (no workforce, highest cost input, lowest value output) a Smart Chip production will make 38,700 profit per hour. It is impossible to lose money with them...

The reason for this is each production cycle...
50 Energy Cells + 20 Silicon Wafers -> 80 Smart Chips
Silicon Wafers do cost a lot each, but few are used compared to the number of Smart Chips produced. Additionally this is not factoring in workforce, since I have yet to work out the logic to compute that (waiting for a station of mine to reach optimum workforce).

Now Smart Chip productions will always make profit, however the amount of profit each is quite small. To put it in perspecive Energy Cell production will make at worst (no workforce, minimum sale price) 132,000 profit per hour as long as all Energy Cells get sold/used, or ~4 times the similar condition profit for a Smart Chip production. As such Smart Chips are not as big money maker as people may think, just there is always a lot of demand for them and a single silicon wafer production and energy cell production can supply 20 or so of them. At 40 workforce Smart Chips only take 40 minutes to optimum workforce as well, compared with the 180 minutes of Hull Parts and such advanced products.
Last edited by DrSuperGood; Jan 21, 2019 @ 2:39am
Gregorovitch Jan 21, 2019 @ 3:27am 
Originally posted by WilsonKingofPrussia:
Originally posted by Rex:

The traders, you assign to a station, only trade in the same sector. It seems to be a bug, i think. If you want to trade to stations in other sectors, you need to do it manually or you need to setup a autotrader, that has the buy range 0 and a sell range, so that he can reach the sector you want to sell it. Also, you need to set the product he should trade to smart chips.



I am having this exact problem, just spent 10's of millions on smart chip complex, the demand is massive, but NO AI ships come to buy the chips (they'll buy/sell the raw goods...), and i cant seem to get my traders to only trade for smart chips. Rather then selling the chips, theyll sell ENERGY CELLS to a station across the map, and only 160 of them, its laughable. Upon trying to deselect the raw good, and leaving only smart chips in the behavior tab after assigning them to trade for the station, the ship will do a trade and the behavior will immedietly revert to trading for all wears at the station. Only way its worked for me is to manually make each trade, and you cant even select multiple ships at once and give one trade order!

I want to say this is a bug. Why would the trader choose to make a 160 energy cell run, rather then selling the main product? I have everything but smart chips set to restrict trade from other factions, there is GREAT demand for smart chips, and my station is full of them!

The key to this is the price differential between the price the station is set to trade smart chips at and the price customers are prepared to pay. That price can be set automatically by your station manager, or you can do it maually, but the effect is the same.

Station traders use the standard Auto-trade algorithms with the exception they only ever "buy" from their assinged station. Therfore they calculate "profit" from a trade run based on the price difference I just mentioned. For this reason a statrion trader might see more profit in shiping 150 ecells at 10 Cr "profit" per cell than so many smart chips at 2 Cr "profit", even though that quite righhtly might not make any business sense to you. Fortunately it's not too difficult to fix.

Poinits to consider sorting this sort of problem out:

* make sure your station traders are all three star rated - they won't trade properly otherwise.

* Your station manager sets prices in inverse proportion to current stock levels, not market conditions. So if you have a full stock of ecells that price will be 11 Cr or something. That's why everyone wants to buy them and your station trader wants to sell them. The answer is to put the price on manual and set it to 20 Cr. Nobody will buy at that price, problem solved.

* If you have a more or less empty stock of smart chips the SM will set the price to max. This stops your station traders doing smart chip deals 'cos it doesn't think there's any "profit" in them. Again, the answer is to put the price on manual and lower it. This will cause your station trader to burst into action selling smart chips.

* With your station traders, the price set for your smart chips is only considered the minimum they will trade for, i.e. for deal selection purposes only. If a customer is currently offering 200 Cr per chip they will still pay 200 Cr per chip even if your station's official price for them is 100 Cr.

* NPC traders however will buy at the station's official sell price.

* So the only reason really not to set the smart chip price to close to minimum is to stop NPC traders from buying your stock on the cheap. You have a choice here between:

* don't care what they pay, a sale is a sale and keeps the Cr rolling in

* GTF out of here - no cheapskate NPCs trading at this station thankyou very much (disallow factions from trading at the station)

* set a mid-range price for the chips. This may increse profit per chip (although if you mine and refine your own solicon then this is moot) but it also may slow sales andtherfore decrease revenue per hour.
Last edited by Gregorovitch; Jan 21, 2019 @ 3:30am
nanobot are more profitable
Inanias Jan 21, 2019 @ 6:04am 
(Once upon a time) I thought 50 smart chip modules were enough for HOP...shipyard and wharf and Equipment dock... now I know that was only a joke
Last edited by Inanias; Jan 21, 2019 @ 6:09am
isemados Jan 21, 2019 @ 6:15am 
For the calculation:

You are producing energycells for free!
You are mining Silicon for free!
You are producing silicon wafers for free!
You sell smart chips for CASH

What you actually count against, is the cost of the station!
DrSuperGood Jan 21, 2019 @ 6:40am 
Originally posted by isemados:
For the calculation:

You are producing energycells for free!
You are mining Silicon for free!
You are producing silicon wafers for free!
You sell smart chips for CASH

What you actually count against, is the cost of the station!
Not true from a business point of view. The silicon wafers could be sold for profit, and so could the silicon and energycells. Hence you have to still consider those expenses to make smart chips since it represents money that the smart chip production is costing you (would otherwise go to your pocket). Only the delta can be considered profit, which is actually quite low per smart chip factory as mentioned above with even energy cell production potentially earning more.

To elaborate this, you would actually make more money making the silicon wafers, selling them at high price to a NPC station and then buying silicon wafers at a low price from another NPC station. As such self sufficient complexes are not about profit, they are about being self sufficient.

In the case of Silicon Wafers they are one of the few production modules which can actually lose money. They make practically no profit, especially without workforce and require a ton of that stuff, and so are not really worth owning. An optimum smart chip setup might be a complex with 5-10 smart chip and an energy cell production placed next to an NPC silicon factory and then 4-6 silicon auto miners placed in the sector to supply that NPC factory. This cuts out the low profit silicon wafer production while earning you money by supplying the silicon to the factory and nets you cheap silicon wafers to turn into smart chips to sell.
Last edited by DrSuperGood; Jan 21, 2019 @ 6:43am
WilsonKingofPrussia Jan 21, 2019 @ 11:32am 
Originally posted by Gregorovitch:
Originally posted by WilsonKingofPrussia:



I am having this exact problem, just spent 10's of millions on smart chip complex, the demand is massive, but NO AI ships come to buy the chips (they'll buy/sell the raw goods...), and i cant seem to get my traders to only trade for smart chips. Rather then selling the chips, theyll sell ENERGY CELLS to a station across the map, and only 160 of them, its laughable. Upon trying to deselect the raw good, and leaving only smart chips in the behavior tab after assigning them to trade for the station, the ship will do a trade and the behavior will immedietly revert to trading for all wears at the station. Only way its worked for me is to manually make each trade, and you cant even select multiple ships at once and give one trade order!

I want to say this is a bug. Why would the trader choose to make a 160 energy cell run, rather then selling the main product? I have everything but smart chips set to restrict trade from other factions, there is GREAT demand for smart chips, and my station is full of them!

The key to this is the price differential between the price the station is set to trade smart chips at and the price customers are prepared to pay. That price can be set automatically by your station manager, or you can do it maually, but the effect is the same.

Station traders use the standard Auto-trade algorithms with the exception they only ever "buy" from their assinged station. Therfore they calculate "profit" from a trade run based on the price difference I just mentioned. For this reason a statrion trader might see more profit in shiping 150 ecells at 10 Cr "profit" per cell than so many smart chips at 2 Cr "profit", even though that quite righhtly might not make any business sense to you. Fortunately it's not too difficult to fix.

Poinits to consider sorting this sort of problem out:

* make sure your station traders are all three star rated - they won't trade properly otherwise.

* Your station manager sets prices in inverse proportion to current stock levels, not market conditions. So if you have a full stock of ecells that price will be 11 Cr or something. That's why everyone wants to buy them and your station trader wants to sell them. The answer is to put the price on manual and set it to 20 Cr. Nobody will buy at that price, problem solved.

* If you have a more or less empty stock of smart chips the SM will set the price to max. This stops your station traders doing smart chip deals 'cos it doesn't think there's any "profit" in them. Again, the answer is to put the price on manual and lower it. This will cause your station trader to burst into action selling smart chips.

* With your station traders, the price set for your smart chips is only considered the minimum they will trade for, i.e. for deal selection purposes only. If a customer is currently offering 200 Cr per chip they will still pay 200 Cr per chip even if your station's official price for them is 100 Cr.

* NPC traders however will buy at the station's official sell price.

* So the only reason really not to set the smart chip price to close to minimum is to stop NPC traders from buying your stock on the cheap. You have a choice here between:

* don't care what they pay, a sale is a sale and keeps the Cr rolling in

* GTF out of here - no cheapskate NPCs trading at this station thankyou very much (disallow factions from trading at the station)

* set a mid-range price for the chips. This may increse profit per chip (although if you mine and refine your own solicon then this is moot) but it also may slow sales andtherfore decrease revenue per hour.

I dont think you understand,

1. my traders do have 3+ stars

2. I do have my prices set manually for stuff I dont want traded, energy cells, set to sell for max price, set to buy at lowest price, my station has a FULL STOCK (or close to) of energy cells

3. My station has over 30k smart chips in stock, NO ONE BUYS THEM. my traders refuse to distribute them if assigned to station, or set to auto trade smart chips. I AM THE ONLY ONE ON THE MAP WITH A SELL OFFER FOR SMART CHIPS. I mine and refine my own silicon.

Please keep throwing idea at me, maybe I missed something trivial, but im pretty sure after hours looking at this, playing the game for 400 hours, ive not made a rookie mistake and there is a bug with smart chips.



Berserk Belta Jan 21, 2019 @ 11:56am 
Ok, stuff outside the normal suggestions...

I would definitely drop satellites at places that buy if you haven't already and the auto trade AI brainfarts.

Ditto not having traders or miners in wings, and (long shot but) if you have docked at phq, checking your traders aren't all stopping to await Proceed orders.

Check you have docking space if you have huge numbers of ships docked, make sure you have a pier.

Lastly and maybe relevant, I had a problem where my station was filling up with energy cells but repeatedly buying them in in 5s and 10s despite sell/buy prices being apparently set right, and not selling smart chips - I found that when I added a swathe more traders things started moving / balancing properly, which doesn't make sense but might apply for you, too.
Last edited by Berserk Belta; Jan 21, 2019 @ 11:58am
Pathogenic Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:25pm 
Originally posted by Rex:
The traders, you assign to a station, only trade in the same sector. It seems to be a bug, i think. If you want to trade to stations in other sectors, you need to do it manually or you need to setup a autotrader, that has the buy range 0 and a sell range, so that he can reach the sector you want to sell it. Also, you need to set the product he should trade to smart chips.

Really? Cause I am not seeing that at all with my engine parts factory. They are taking engine parts here and there and everywhere, just by assigning traders to the station.

I wonder if people having problems do not have a satellite network with lots of discovered stations to feed trade info to their traders. I certainly do.
Last edited by Pathogenic; Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:27pm
WilsonKingofPrussia Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:29pm 
Thank you for your quick reply Berserk!

I do have satellites at every known station, over 400+

Traders are medium ships, not in wing, no cargo dudes required, my station is not at PHQ after i had issues my first play through with ships getting stuck in the asteroid

I have 2 landing pads at my station, no one uses them lol

I have 6 traders I tried assigning to station, they never traded the end product of smart chips
BATTLEMODE Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:29pm 
There is a thread going on atm on the X4 forums about this very topic, saves reposting all the info here.

Smartchips are an easy way for the player to make money. One silicon wafer factory provides for 20 smart chip plants, you can not only make an absolute killing but you'll stimulate the economy and get the wharfs and shipyards all back in action, it's the single best way of getting the factions pumping out ships for war.
BATTLEMODE Jan 21, 2019 @ 12:31pm 
I think it's confusing atm with smart chips because some people are reporting the shortage as a bug, some think it's deliberate, some people may genuinely be experiencing a bug with the supply and so on.
Gregorovitch Jan 21, 2019 @ 1:25pm 
Originally posted by WilsonKingofPrussia:

3. My station has over 30k smart chips in stock, NO ONE BUYS THEM. my traders refuse to distribute them if assigned to station, or set to auto trade smart chips. I AM THE ONLY ONE ON THE MAP WITH A SELL OFFER FOR SMART CHIPS. I mine and refine my own silicon.

OK, but what price have you set for the smart chips? That's the one detail you didn't mention.
Yea so i posted on x fourms and im being told my price is too high and one people set it to autoprice, it dropped to 174 which enticed buyers. But I dont understand why i have to go that low

It looks like im the only one selling smart chips, so I has monoploy, and i had it set to 210, 5 less then what ai stations buy orders was for, 215.

I dont get what coding logic they are using for this, it like my traders dont see a "profit" buying it from my station and selling it for whatever, but they dont get they are not actually paying for the product, they are just transporting it for me
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Date Posted: Dec 12, 2018 @ 5:21am
Posts: 53