Capital Ships

[GDS]

When I first saw cap ships in X4, I was absolutely confused. Because Behemoth (Odyssey and others) looks like a frigate. Number of turrets is disgusting, speed and maneuverability are not suited for a capital class ship (reminds me an Anaconda from Elite Dangerous which is again - more a corvette size ship). With mods it looks like and old M6 corvette from X3.

Devs, where are beautiful ships from X Rebirth? Arawn, Taranis, Fulmekron, Olmekron, Balor, Lyranea and etc?

And even do not try to tell me, that it is impossible to port them. You even didn't try to do this? You are not students with a little experience, you're a professional dev team (or not?).

I read some stupid things here about balance and sizes and want to comment:

So, are there any problems to slightly enlarge or make smaller ships from X Rebirth to fit with X4 ones? NO, even I could do this in 3D modelling program. And I don't think there is any need of that, Arawn is almost the same class and size as current Colossus, no special modding required. See ported ships from XR to X4.

1) Docks and modules? X Rebirth ships have MANY empty spaces to place all this stuff. Arawn even has an outer dock already. Even in mods with ported ships from X Rebirth we can see, how it can be made. Not perfect, but it's possible.
2) Balance? Too many turrets on X Rebirth ships? That is exactly what I want (and expect) from a capital ship, not this nonsense from X4 ones. Because current cap ships in X4 can't even defend themselves because of:
>> Lack of turrets. Seriously, destroyer (L) with 2 L and 5-6 M turrets? Are you kidding? Even X3 ships had more (not even counting from 8 to 10 forward main cannons).
>> Turret weapons has a small damage output and long cooldowns. Combined with a poor number, we have a bad fire coverage of any section of the ship. Something is terribly wrong with aiming AI - there was no such problems in previous games. Turrets that only do a fraction of fixed weapon damage and cannot properly track and hit their target (we need better fire range like 15-20 km, see VRO mod), combined with shields that do not regen while a target is under fire, creates a nightmare scenario where the small and nimble fighter can take down larger targets with no threat to its well-being. Similar can be said of the efficiency of all large ships.
>> Turrets has slow rotation, especially combined with capital ship good maneuverability (they look like frigates or corvettes from X3), when turrets often can't even properly track targets because ship turns too fast. Rotation speeds and inertia of big ships in X4 doens't match the fact these ships should be a lot slower. Now we have a situation like an existence of modern naval cruiser with a movement characteristics of a inflatable boat.
>> Turret weapons has low range and can't effectively aim at targets.

Instead of complaining about X Rebirth ships, that have "too many" turrets, better to ask yourself why current ships in X4 have so low number of them and increase this number to match X Rebirth ships. I even do not want to start talking about poor VFX and SFX of weapons, explosions, engine streams and etc. Looks like a placeholders in a alpha game.

I don't understand, how we came from this (no mods at all): https://youtu.be/23YtF7NJQ0U
To this (with mods!): https://youtu.be/35hCgdw18TY

For me, it's unplayble for now without mods like VRO and custom modded ships. Devs, what happened to your design artist? Current ships in X4 in terms of design are the WORST ships in the series. X3 ships were a lot better in all aspects (and had many turrets too). There is a nice word I can see about current cap ships and overall design of the X4. It's called - degradation. Even in comparison with X Rebirth (which most players and fans hate). It's nonsense for me :(

[Alith-Ahnar]

Yes that is why i said better then X³ but worse X:Rebirth.

X³ does not even have Crew unless you fallback to Mod's (Bonuspack signed Mod's).

Main part of my assessment that was/is that X4 is the demanded followup to X³ not X:Rebirth that lacks feature parity with better visuals that don't hold up to X:Rebirth.

Your examples mirror this sentiment even.

[Pathogenic]

L sized destroyers in X4 remind me more of M7s in X3. XL sized battleships, such as the Xenon K and I, are proper sized battleships, but the other factions need similar sized beasts as well.

[Alith-Ahnar]

Escrito originalmente por Pathogenic:

L sized destroyers in X4 remind me more of M7s in X3. XL sized battleships, such as the Xenon K and I, are proper sized battleships, but the other factions need similar sized beasts as well.

Maybe because the first set of M7 from X³:AP did happen to be Kit bashed Capital Hulls?
The first OG M7 in X³:TC was the Hyperion the same Hull that later in X³:AP was downgraded to a M6++.

My Point is classification and size has been fluid before in why should it not again in X4?

For now the game has only one single Battleship that is classified as such the xenon I all the others Including the Xenon K are Destroyer.
What does this imply for the future?

Bigger commonwealth ships could be a thing for the future with more space unlocking in upcoming DLC/updates or as started to a mixed degree by modders.

Or they won't Faction's are right now not symetric only Argon and Teladi have a dedicated Bomber Hull by Name while only Paranid have a Corvette something i don't see as imbalance but faction identity.

[Tiny Pocket Ninja]

Escrito originalmente por GDS:

I willl just show, how I see space battle (just remember, it's year 2019 and we are entitled to demand a similar level of quality), especially between capital ships. Egosoft reached nearly similiar level in X Rebirth, now we have degradation.

https://youtu.be/R1EiYqKgJ8o

I had totally forgotten Infinity Battlescape.
Thanks for the reminder, I know where I'll be in a couple of months!(the fleet battle are spectacular!)

I'm a fan of X Rebirth big ships combat/art/feeling and I reckon that X4 is very lacking in these departments...

[GDS]

There is a nice word I can see about current cap ships and overall design of the game. It's called - degradation. In comparison with hated X Rebirth. It's nonsense for me :(

[★ PENTA Vivian ★]

Escrito originalmente por GDS:

When I first saw cap ships here, I was absolutely confused. Because Behemoth looks like a frigate. Number of turrets is disgusting, speed and menuverability are not suited for a capital class ship. With mods it looks like and old M6 corvette.

Devs, where are beautiful ships from X Rebirth? Arawn, Taranis, Fulmekron, Olmekron, Balor, Lyranea and etc?

I even do not want to tell about terrible ship's design in X4.

Because Behemoth is Frigate, X Universe had resource shortages due to gate shutdown and they had to upclass ships, Frigate is Destroyer, Corvette is Frigate, Heavy Fighter is Corvette, Fighter is Heavy Fighter, Scout is Fighter, Bad Scout is Scout, only carriers seem big since they have to be for hangars, though they are still small compared to carriers in X3 which could hold like two times more in some ships. Disgusting is an understatement. I would rather have Modern X3AP.

[GDS]

Escrito originalmente por Sordahon:

Escrito originalmente por GDS:

When I first saw cap ships here, I was absolutely confused. Because Behemoth looks like a frigate. Number of turrets is disgusting, speed and menuverability are not suited for a capital class ship. With mods it looks like and old M6 corvette.

Devs, where are beautiful ships from X Rebirth? Arawn, Taranis, Fulmekron, Olmekron, Balor, Lyranea and etc?

I even do not want to tell about terrible ship's design in X4.

Because Behemoth is Frigate, X Universe had resource shortages due to gate shutdown and they had to upclass ships, Frigate is Destroyer, Corvette is Frigate, Heavy Fighter is Corvette, Fighter is Heavy Fighter, Scout is Fighter, Bad Scout is Scout, only carriers seem big since they have to be for hangars, though they are still small compared to carriers in X3 which could hold like two times more in some ships. Disgusting is an understatement. I would rather have Modern X3AP.

I don't think it's worth commenting on that it looks like a total nonsense?

I've updated original (first) post.