Current State of Kinetic Vs Energy

[Anonymous]

What is the proper way to use projectile weapons?

I went through a lot of reading and I really cant think of a reason why kinetic would be better than beam/laser weaponry mainly due to range, flak, and delay.
- Cross fire makes long range a much more common than other range regardless of tactic cards...
-This renders pure slug unrealistic...
- And the only long range projectile weapons (missiles/bombers) are often countered by flak and has a delay... The delay makes them a bit worse for match ups as enemy have first strike to reduce your dps by killing your ships first before u kill theirs... and swarm don't exactly help bombers if they dont have the same timing, and it taking up an extra slot cuts your dps...
- Projectile has weaker penetration against shield than energy has against armor...
- The hull pen cards have odd Long/Medium/Short range, making it really weird to use... Since generally missiles prefer long range, and slug short. The only lane able to hit top and bot lane is mid lane, which makes it optimal for long range missiles, but starts at medium range... wtf?? for medium match ups, the phase 2 will be short if enemy chooses a short card, which counters missiles... Perhaps this card is more meant for energy?
- All these factors also makes Sheredyn Card really weird, esp when it was unlocked in mid-late game when single lane are going out of style and long range weaponry becomes more important.... Its really confusing what to put in the mid lane....

- Slugs with long range penalties also makes morale less effective for them, since morale buff only triggers when you have more lane than the enemy, and slugs sucks at long range... This effectively means ships on the extra lane doesnt really provide much help if they are running slug... Though the accuracy benefit does help...

- On the other hand, while beams and lasers have weak dmg, they are much more well rounded on all range, making them much more flexible.
- Against slug and missiles, they have the first strike advantage of killing enemy ships to weaken their future dps in long phase, and able to provide proper cross fire support to nearby lanes when outnumbering enemy or lane is won.


Is it the Projectile and Energy defense thats what rebalances all these aspects? I do notice that energy have lower pen compared to projectiles overall, and shields gives much more defense value than armor does...

What is the proper way to use projectile weapons?

[rcuajunco]

Evasive manuvers is still a good combat card

There is no, be all then end all fleet design
VS AI you can get away with anything
VS other humans you should still bring projectile fleets with ur energy fleets. Then send the apropriate fleet too engage first.

If you go all in towards energy weapon with energy defense, opponent will just go projectile with energy defense.

[Anonymous]

I think that is a fair assessment... Perhaps I been looking at this topic in a too extremist way...
What is your view on the Sheredyn Card?

[rcuajunco]

When i play UE, i go for expand too 20 systems, then stop expanding, refocus on teching and using dust / influence too rush buildings too get too 30 pt fleets faster. For that play style Mezari are better than sheredyn.

Only time I go sheredyn is when im forced too go military early. The Sheredyn Card is a good early game card but it falls off in effectiveness faster now due too the change in population growth.

There is a greater focus on just having 3 economic behemoths at your homeworld, too ship off 3 population a turn in the midgame.

[TheSleepingLibrary]

Sheredyn feels like a small galaxy/few opponents choice. I almost always choose to stay UE or go Mezari.

[Lord_Chencho]

Develope both and some kind of anti rocket defense would be nice..

[Fulano]

Originally posted by Lord_Chencho:

Develope both and some kind of anti rocket defense would be nice..

Do you mean other than the flak weapons already in the game?

[Captain Cobbs]

Originally posted by Fulano:

Originally posted by Lord_Chencho:

Develope both and some kind of anti rocket defense would be nice..

Do you mean other than the flak weapons already in the game?

And the Squadrons

[Lywelyn]

to be honest, there is no bad outcome from going full kinetic over full energy, i never tried a mix of both for aesthetic reasons

[Sedghammer]

You can dominate at long range with a mix of missiles and swarm missiles. The swarm missiles render flak relatively useless.

[Fulano]

Originally posted by Lywelyn:

to be honest, there is no bad outcome from going full kinetic over full energy, i never tried a mix of both for aesthetic reasons

Ya, my last several games I've just gone kinetic without issue.

[badassunicorn]

I doubt there is one 'proper' way. I like to use particle beams, for example. Yes, damage output is lower. But it is at 90% for all distances.
I usually combine that with simple bullets, for good measure, to defend against enemy guided weapons (there should be three categories in this game, not two) and in this combination my ships become more effective when closing in.
Choosing a long range card, the particle weapons deal a fair amount of damage, especially against a pure kinetic enemy.

[Leyline]

the fallacy at work here is thinking that the war is decided by your ship design choices.

Its decided by your ability to reprint fleets fast enough to simply grind all opposition into dust.

[Fulano]

Originally posted by Leyline:

the fallacy at work here is thinking that the war is decided by your ship design choices.

Its decided by your ability to reprint fleets fast enough to simply grind all opposition into dust.

If you make good ship design choices you don't have to reprint fleets. :)

[Lywelyn]

in all honesty i disagree. even the most top notch fleet can be deleted by a papercut.

said papercut coudl be an obliterator's fart in your general system's direction.

that said, if a huge ass faction like empire or riftborn show up with an insanely high industry, they can basically swarm you each turns with a new built stock fleet, enough to output your repair rate, i've yet to see it but that's to be experimented, some late game settings are ludicrously stupid.

[Fulano]

Originally posted by Lywelyn:

in all honesty i disagree. even the most top notch fleet can be deleted by a papercut.

said papercut coudl be an obliterator's fart in your general system's direction.

that said, if a huge ass faction like empire or riftborn show up with an insanely high industry, they can basically swarm you each turns with a new built stock fleet, enough to output your repair rate, i've yet to see it but that's to be experimented, some late game settings are ludicrously stupid.

Ya, you'd have to make sure not to be countered. The hero repair skills are pretty awesome though for sustained combat, or the ecology law that repairs your ships.