Any good reasons for NOT terraforming a planet?

[Strategikal]

Extreme planets like Lava and Barren provide a massive amount of industry and science, far more than if you terraform them all the way to Atoll and Ocean, but when you take the increased population into account they provide almost as much or more industry and science (depending on planet size) as well as the other obvious benefits.

But there are many other factors to take into account, like bonuses for hot/cold, fertile/sterile, anomalies and so on, so is it always good to terraform planets to the max, or are certain planet types worth keeping as they are?

I realise there are so many different factors involved that it may be a case of "it all depends" but what's the general thinking on this issue?

[Mirror]

normally speaking you ALWAYS want to terraform, its a straight upgrade. only time you wouldnt want to terraform is for specific races like riftborn and planet improvements.

[LuNi]

Terraform planets to atleast fertile. More pop slots and still keep bonuses. For science Terraform to Boreal. For industry Terraform to Jungle etc.

[Mirror]

Originally posted by LuNi:

Terraform planets to atleast fertile. More pop slots and still keep bonuses. For science Terraform to Boreal. For industry Terraform to Jungle etc.

Ocean better for science and atoll better for industry. Boreal is 5 Ocean is 6 Jungle is 5 and Atoll is 6. Also jungle is 0 science and Boreal is 0 industry, way worse options.

[KatArus]

Desert planets have the most Industry output. AI building that gives +5 on hot +5 on sterile per pop plus hero skills that give bonus industry on sterile and hot plus industry specialization They have the most population slots of planets that are both sterile and hot and have decent innate FIDS. Jungle still has benefit of being hot but is fertile instead of sterile that is better for food and science. When you get to biofuel difference becomes less drastic.

Basically, you should have one or two 5 planet desert systems for ship building and terraform everything else.

[Giga]

Biophobic is a good reason and not being Riftborn [Riftborn reverse the track]. But that's really about it.

Just keep in mind that most of the later game techs encourage you to use Sterile and Hot/Cold worlds. When you Terraform, there's no going back like in ES1. So it's a matter of balancing early rush output + approval bonus vs late game sustain.

Conversely, you can terraform a system you invaded from someone and leave it with all Boreals. This totally dumps all their industry and dust production for that system, making it a massive sink, especially if you load it with influence and pop-science stuff. This assuming you don't intent to keep the system.

[Holce]

There are a lot of later game tech that work with fertile too.

Boreals planets does not dumps the indsutry and dust that much. (Except if something has changed in 2-3 last patches). You have building that give +4 dust per pop dust on temperate and +4 dust per pop on fertile (boreal get +4). Another building turn any excess food in industry. The planet specialization that give up to +6 food per pop on fertile become better than the +4 per pop you get on hot planet. You can also turn half your industry in dust if you don't need industry (half of you excess food).

This is why I like to have a small amount of bio pop when I play RiftBorn. One bio pop is needed to produce food. You won't eat much and get a huge industry boost later on. On the last patch Riftborn get bonus pop on sterile and malus pop on fertile. The dev seem to have added a tech to increase pop on sterile. I don't take the time to look at it yet. But now the reverse terraformation of the riftborn may become better. Before it was only good for happiness. With the techs that work with sterils it was possible to compensate slighty the pop loss.

[utilityguy]

The PLanet Type achievement.

Minor faction specific quests(mainly that one about the logistical nightmare that is actually making the Amblyr have a few Toxic vacation planets, because they're complaining why the Niris get special treatment for being multi armed mullusks... which really is annoying since the Amblyr are just acting super insulted that they are not getting the same treatment for being Swampy humanoid denizens of the empire(which could already use the Byped Humanoid minded informational devices without a problem in the first place(like wtf Amblyr))

Uh... there's probably a third reason somewhere.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

For much of the game it's not necessarily going to be worth the cost, especially with the +5 ind/pop on Sterile from that t3 improvement. By endgame it's absolutely worth it: +4 sci/pop on fertile as well as a bunch of others I can't remember, more than worth the flat food and 5 industry scaling you lose.

[Evierial]

No, ES2 currently has nothing specially provide bonus on extreme planets (i.e. lava, barren and toxic), even gas type can only raise total pop cap, so non-Riftborns take too much penalty on approval. Making full use of sterile is still only viable to planets like Desert or Arctic (lowest approval malus).

[Train27]

I always thought terraforming was a situational thing. For instance, if you had a system that you'd wanted to make into a dust factory, you'd rather have all the planets be sterile.
If you have a planet that doesn't shine in anything in particular, you could always make it bigger getting to Atoll/Ocean and building the influence planetary improvement.

Same for industry, jungle planets mostly.

[Giga]

Originally posted by Holce:

There are a lot of later game tech that work with fertile too.

Boreals planets does not dumps the indsutry and dust that much. (Except if something has changed in 2-3 last patches). You have building that give +4 dust per pop dust on temperate and +4 dust per pop on fertile (boreal get +4). Another building turn any excess food in industry. The planet specialization that give up to +6 food per pop on fertile become better than the +4 per pop you get on hot planet. You can also turn half your industry in dust if you don't need industry (half of you excess food).

This is why I like to have a small amount of bio pop when I play RiftBorn. One bio pop is needed to produce food. You won't eat much and get a huge industry boost later on. On the last patch Riftborn get bonus pop on sterile and malus pop on fertile. The dev seem to have added a tech to increase pop on sterile. I don't take the time to look at it yet. But now the reverse terraformation of the riftborn may become better. Before it was only good for happiness. With the techs that work with sterils it was possible to compensate slighty the pop loss.

Yeah, but they're either sub optimal or they're for food. If you're going for a pop gen system, that's cool, but otherwise it's mostly Sterile that you need late game to thrive.

Umm....Boreal gives 0 industry per pop. And it counts as cold, not temperate. While it's fertile, it's also the lowest food producing and dust producing planets out of them all, tied with jungle. Further, the tech you're talking about, the Chlorophyll Chemistry, is a T5 tech. The improvement requires you have 100% of your population slots filled. For the record, without Behes or major bonuses to food, food caps out around 500 last I remember, due to there being so few techs for it. Industry, by itself and accounting for Hot+Sterile soft caps at around 1500 with the minimum 5 pop you can get....Before you start adding in unique factors...There isn't a comparison here. I mean, one tech alone on a lava/ash gives you +10 industry per pop, plus +6 with the specialization.

Sure with Riftborn that works, it gives a small industry boost, but...That's really about it. Small. On the other hand, you're tossing 100+ dust out the window for that boost.
As to bonuses to Sterile, iunno. I know that Sterile and Gas are the main planet types that get the most bonuses to max pop through tech. You can get a fairly cheese build going with custom factions where you hit the absolute max with sterile, which starts creating....Interesting outcomes.

Originally posted by Evierial:

No, ES2 currently has nothing specially provide bonus on extreme planets (i.e. lava, barren and toxic), even gas type can only raise total pop cap, so non-Riftborns take too much penalty on approval. Making full use of sterile is still only viable to planets like Desert or Arctic (lowest approval malus).

Umm....Approval only effects Influence and Food on system. Dust and Science are empire wide versions. And only -30% if your empire approval is at 0. To get 0, you need to mess up bad and over expand before you can support it...Or you have to have only 1 system, and it's at 0 approval somehow...It has nothing to do with what planet types you take; it has everything to do with the over colonization penalty.
Which...That's rare; Sorry, but I've played on Endless, and I've played with both friends and randoms, and I don't think I've ever seen someone get to the point of -15% or -30%, just because of how many different ways you can up end approval. I mean hell, there's a LAW that auto sets it to happy just for having the Religious party up to level 3. And several Heroes can set it to Ecstatic and being placed on the system. Not to mention all the techs that allow for approval boosts.

As to there being 'nothing specially provided bonus' for Sterile planets; Highest population cap, highest industry output outside of Gas, highest science output outside of Gas, And highest dust sustainability with tech. And that's just off the top of my head. Iunno what version you're playing, or with what mods, but...Sterile is hands down the best planet types in the game, even for non-Riftborn.

[Arubianus Soul Reaver]

Originally posted by Giga:

Biophobic is a good reason and not being Riftborn [Riftborn reverse the track]. But that's really about it.

Just keep in mind that most of the later game techs encourage you to use Sterile and Hot/Cold worlds. When you Terraform, there's no going back like in ES1. So it's a matter of balancing early rush output + approval bonus vs late game sustain.

Conversely, you can terraform a system you invaded from someone and leave it with all Boreals. This totally dumps all their industry and dust production for that system, making it a massive sink, especially if you load it with influence and pop-science stuff. This assuming you don't intent to keep the system.

That's pure evil genius. It's liking sowing salt into fields of conjured lands you don't intend to keep.

[Arubianus Soul Reaver]

Maybe you shouldn't teraform every planet cause them you end up like a galaxy wide bland shopping mall. I love my lava planets with their lunar habitats and underground pressure protected habitats

[Giga]

Originally posted by cormacphillips2010:

Originally posted by Giga:

Biophobic is a good reason and not being Riftborn [Riftborn reverse the track]. But that's really about it.

Just keep in mind that most of the later game techs encourage you to use Sterile and Hot/Cold worlds. When you Terraform, there's no going back like in ES1. So it's a matter of balancing early rush output + approval bonus vs late game sustain.

Conversely, you can terraform a system you invaded from someone and leave it with all Boreals. This totally dumps all their industry and dust production for that system, making it a massive sink, especially if you load it with influence and pop-science stuff. This assuming you don't intent to keep the system.

That's pure evil genius. It's liking sowing salt into fields of conjured lands you don't intend to keep.

Oh this isn't even the half of it. Now that we have our hands on Behemoths, which can cause depletion points, you can do the above, but leave the system, terraform while not owning the system [or do it before you evac], and dump a whole bunch of core probes on the system. Since it's Behemoths, forcing them off the point can be fairly problematic. Of course, it can take some time to do that...
What's even more hilarious is building a Behemoth C3 center on a planet then tactically surrendering. Sure, they can just destroy it, but that's still time wasted having to go through and delete ♥♥♥♥. Assuming they notice before the turn ticks over. XD

It's as close to the Harmony rush as we could get from ES1, but it's still fairly effective considering how busted the game's balance is.

[sethgaines]

I never terraform. I like to leave things as I found them.