PC's ROTR vs PS4's uncharted 4 (graphics)

[MechaSalvo]

Do you think they are very equal on graphics, PC has the advantage or PS4 surpasses PC this time around.

[robs2010mazda6s]

Originally posted by Palynzer:

I never like uncharted ♥♥♥♥...so there s no vs at all.
TR forever!

Uncharted is anything but the choice word you called it...... and with such an ignorant statement its doubtful you have ever even played them before.

[Carnage]

Is there a proper visual comparison somewhere, without all this console propagandistic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?

[HooksGURU]

Originally posted by Carnage:

Is there a proper visual comparison somewhere, without all this console propagandistic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥?

Sure, all you have to do is look a the developer diary information surrounding Naughty Dog's efforts with Uncharted, and the Rise of the Tomb Raider mechanics and graphics features on the PC. A simple comparrison could be drawn by those that are intrested.

In my personal opinion, although the two could be comparred from a gameplay and mechanical point of view, there isn't really an even ground for testing as consoles don't typically have hardware benchmark diagnostics embedded.

Both are impressive, regardless of platform; but technically Uncharted is impressive in its own way, as it looks as it does all while working around the limitations of the console's hardware. If Uncharted 4 were on PC; there would be no question as to it being a "front runner," as one of the best looking titles of this generation (2015-16).

Albeit, Rise of the Tomb Raider is visually one of the more complex graphical engines to date. It sports very intricate shaders and geometry technology, and the lighting is some of the best in the industry. So, in its own right, it is one of the best "looking" titles currently available.

EDIT: To make your life easier, here are some references below:
Part 1 "Making of series"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uKia6kb1fk

Part 2 "Making of series"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4wWMe85Dgo

Rise of the Tomb Raider NOTE: Some of the industry's best MoCAP I have ever seen. Surpasses that of CryTek's works, which I previously held in the highest regard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5Yg3a9Wv5Y

The animation system is one of the aspects that sets Rise of the Tomb Raider above other titles of this era.

EDIT: It is important to note that the team behind Rise of the Tomb Raider doesn't exactly share information in the traditional fashion of "behind the scenes" engine building systems. I feel part of the reason is that they are not finished yet. They have been working with NVIDIA on several new technologies; one of which is utilization of HDR & Ansel suport (NVIDIA's SDK).

So, it goes without saying the engine is technically still "under construction." This is in addition to being the first title to support DirectX 12 multi-GPU rendering. So, from a PC exclusive standpoint, impressive in its own right. Very much so in fact.

Regardless of bias, both games are technical achievements and milestones each in their own way. Each make up two of the best action-adventure titles money can buy. It is my hope that in the future Naughty Dog will spread their wings beyond Sony exclusive contracts, and make their way to the PC. They are limiting themselves, and their talents, by being placed on hardware that is aged and limited in every way possible. That's just one man's opinion. So don't go lighting torches over it.

It is a fact. The Playstation & XBOX One consoles, are better suited for pre-2010 from a hardware resource standpoint. It is because the consoles are targeted at a lower consumer expense bracket that they have held back gaming. For that, I show no forgiveness. They have ruined PC games, they have limited developer's ability to design software, and what's more, they have held back industry momentum due to compatability shortcomings. I digress, but it is worth saying in my opinion. I have no love for consoles. I never have, and I never will. They are a necessity, but are solely responsible for the state of gaming technology used in today's games. The only exception are the titles which have PC exclusie features. These are few and far between, as they are costly to develop, and publishers feel it is far easier to persue straightforward ports. I could go on for days about this subject, but I won't, because it's not about me, or my feelings...

[FreeToaster]

Originally posted by HooksGURU:

Both are impressive, regardless of platform; but technically Uncharted is impressive in its own way, as it looks as it does all while working around the limitations of the console's hardware. If Uncharted 4 were on PC; there would be no question as to it being a "front runner," as one of the best looking titles of this generation (2015-16).

They are both impressive, It's amazing what ND have always managed to squeeze out and it is a real shame they have been limited to one platform for so long. I also found it impossible to pick a clear winner in the visuals department as Uncharted's world is more aesthetically pleasing as a whole and that's not saying Tomb Raiders world doesnt have it's moments, but much of it has a darker, worn down feel to it, it certainly looks fantastic though.

I'd rather just enjoy the games than try and pick them apart to see if there is a winner though.

[MalistiX]

I think when your playing, Tomb raider looks better on a high end pc but the character emotions cinematics and just what naughty dog excells in, is unmatched in UC4

[chimera201]

Shouldn't Drake's hand cast a shadow on the wall in this image?

http://images.eurogamer.net/2015/articles/a/1/8/2/9/0/4/7/6.bmp.jpg

[FreeToaster]

Originally posted by chimera201:

Shouldn't Drake's hand cast a shadow on the wall in this image?

http://images.eurogamer.net/2015/articles/a/1/8/2/9/0/4/7/6.bmp.jpg

I'm not really sure trying to nitpick certain scenes helps anything. considering how good the lighting is in the game if the shadow isnt present then it probably doesnt belong there.

[chimera201]

They probably didn't render shadows to increase performance in certain areas especially dynamic shadows.

Digital Foundry does a good job at tech analysis:

UC4: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-uncharted-4-thiefs-end-tech-analysis

ROTR X1: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-tech-analysis

ROTR PC: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-rise-of-the-tomb-raider-pc-face-off

[HooksGURU]

Originally posted by chimera201:

Shouldn't Drake's hand cast a shadow on the wall in this image?

http://images.eurogamer.net/2015/articles/a/1/8/2/9/0/4/7/6.bmp.jpg

Ambient Occlusion appears to be obscuring the shadow draw from the model. If you look, the detail of the power box on the right is also obscured. This is a common result of loss in detail with using tradition AO with other "primitive" lighting methods. Also, because the light source is to the front of the two characters, you can see the dark "low-lights" to the rear of the character models, as if they themselves are creating a shadow.

The method of ambient occlusion used in Uncharted 4 looks to be conflicting with the diffuse lighting. Bascially, you have three elements at work in this specific image: 1) specular lighting 2) diffuse lighting 3) ambient occlusion.

You can look up examples of these technologies in an SDK handbook such as Unreal Engine 4's SDK (v4.9) for a better idea of how they interact, or conflict in creating a scene.

In the example below from some of my previous work on CryEngine 3, you can a similar effect on the trees facing the camera. The detail is removed as the light soruce, in this case the Moon, is to the front of the trees. HBAO (ambient occlusion) interacts with the shadows to create an almost "zero light" image (color goes from 0 to 255 on a color gradient). The second example is taken closer to the light source level, so detail remains through transparent objects such as leaves. Whereas the first example uses opaque assets such as the base of the trees.

Example with obscured light source (ambient occlusion, specular, low shadow highlights)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=526030767

In the above example you will notice the shadows are drawn opposite the light source. Similar to your example image where the backs of the characters appear to be "blacked out."

Example with non-obscured specular lighting, and detail remains in the gemometry (assets).
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=712159754

These were back around 2011, I made the jump to UE circa 2013 forward, and I'm now on UE4. Which is far more intuitive when working with light soruce and shadow resolutions (self shadow). My guess is Naughty Dog used cheaper lighting elements in in-door areas to help optimize the software for the Playstation's hardware capability. I saw this, because if you look at the lattern, that's a really cheap bloom effect without lens flare.

Wheras, Rise of the Tomb Raider is using expensive resource lens flare, and specular lighting with directional lighting. Seen below.
http://i.imgur.com/7MlTDP5.jpg

This resoruce can provide you with more information on how lighting composition is applied to a scene.
https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Rendering/LightingAndShadows/

[chimera201]

@HooksGURU So you are a technical artist? IMO the AO isn't conflicting with the other systems. ND just skipped shadow rendering for certain light sources to hit the performance target. Most of the shadows I've seen in UC4 looks like baked shadows. ROTR does have a better overall shadowing system.

It's easier to see in this image (high settings not max, HBAO+):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=725615398

It would have been great if ROTR used UE4's temporal AA though.

[WarmedxMints]

Having played through Uncharted 4, I can say it's graphics are actually pretty awful.

While they may look nice in screenshots, most of the time the background is devoid of any life. Foliage is hardly animated and most of the cut scenes look like the characters are in front of a still picture. The enviroments are completely lacking in any life. Then of course there are the horrid frame drops while playing it.

Rott beats Uncharted 4's graphics without breaking a sweat.

[Seb | セビ]

Originally posted by WarmedxMints:

Then of course there are the horrid frame drops while playing it.

obvious troll is obvious

[Gabi]

Originally posted by Polaris:

I agree except for UC 4 being bigger. That game emulates "huge " levels of exploration, where collectables are more like useless, the rest of the game is linear. In ROTR, map has much stuff going on that you can actually explore and discover.

UC 4 is a polished game, if weren't for framerate and resolution I'd say its a PC game. You are right about that.

There are a number of things that clever design hides in uncharted 4 that really show of its console nature. It is a great looking game still, but charcter models out of cut scenes are noticably worse then what is in ROTR. Likewise the environment is good but hardly better in any real manner.

The exception of course is the large set pieces that are far better handled in uncharted 4.

[robs2010mazda6s]

Originally posted by WarmedxMints:

Having played through Uncharted 4, I can say it's graphics are actually pretty awful.

While they may look nice in screenshots, most of the time the background is devoid of any life. Foliage is hardly animated and most of the cut scenes look like the characters are in front of a still picture. The enviroments are completely lacking in any life. Then of course there are the horrid frame drops while playing it.

Rott beats Uncharted 4's graphics without breaking a sweat.

I can say you are actually pretty full of it because none of what you stated is even close to being true. You are saying the foilage barely animates? I guess you must be completely blind........... no wait, its more than that you are just flat out lying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URWCTxtFZKE


All I really see are a lot of people in some serious denial around here in regards to UC4's visuals...... I have a lot of other videos posted on the front page too and honeslty there is no way in this world that anyone within their right mind can say that this game looks bad, thats just pure unadulterated bs.

[HooksGURU]

Originally posted by chimera201:

@HooksGURU So you are a technical artist? IMO the AO isn't conflicting with the other systems. ND just skipped shadow rendering for certain light sources to hit the performance target. Most of the shadows I've seen in UC4 looks like baked shadows. ROTR does have a better overall shadowing system.

It's easier to see in this image (high settings not max, HBAO+):
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=725615398

It would have been great if ROTR used UE4's temporal AA though.

More content creation under game design (CryEngine 3, Unreal Engine), fluent in C++ programming language, low-level, Autodesk suite and poly-building, and some web frameworks, but not nearly as experienced. Not a technical artist exactly, though I do use orginal content in most of my work. That's a side thing I do for personal education and experience though. The three licenses I have published aren't related to gaming at all, and were for a business firm out of NY that I was contracted for following college. Mainly I am a columnist for hardware and software publications related to the industry, and contribute to web based publications and media sources.

I agree 100% Rise of the Tomb Raider has better shadow use. Then again the engine is designed for higher resource allocation. So, higher resolution soft shadows and branching shadows are more easily accomplished as a result. Albeit, fantastic use of shadows and particle effects. Some of the best so far.

Also, I have to disagree on UE 4's temporal anti-aliasing. I feel it detracts from texture fidelity in motion. Even though it isn't resource hungry, I'm a man who prefers to see sharper geometry. This is where supersample/downsample will be a nice replacement in that regard; as well as resolution scaling percentages. Another aspect I advocate for in gaming. I think it is the end all be all of edge removal as it doesn't compromise the image fidelity. It's a personal taste thing at play here. Nothing more. I also despise with the heat of a thousand suns, FXAA, so my bias against temporal is right in line with that. "Vasoline Filters."

Originally posted by WarmedxMints:

Having played through Uncharted 4, I can say it's graphics are actually pretty awful.

While they may look nice in screenshots, most of the time the background is devoid of any life. Foliage is hardly animated and most of the cut scenes look like the characters are in front of a still picture. The enviroments are completely lacking in any life. Then of course there are the horrid frame drops while playing it.

Rott beats Uncharted 4's graphics without breaking a sweat.

In Uncharted defense, there isn't exactly a great deal of background activity in any graphically centered title to be honest. Save a few here and there. Most utilize skyboxes, and low resolution distance scaling methods to reduce resource overhead. It's nothing new. Pretty much required to be honest.