HV mining.

[Death2Gnomes]

First let me say this, HV mining sucks, its not so much the actual mining but the HV itself. Sneeze and your HV flips over, pass over a small bump in the lanscape and..., yep, you can flip over. This need to get fix not put a bandaid on it by adding a hotkey to correct your position. So a few things when it comes to HV and mining that might be worth applying some common sense.

- drills only mount one way. All drills I ever seen drill vertically down into the ground.
- you have a cockpit that wont let see below you because you are SITTING DOWN!
- there are no standing or vertical cockpits, HV mining only benefits from this.
- if you mine yourself into a hole and the HV gets stuck at an odd angle you cant back out, most often you have to get out and dig yourself out by hand.
- Hoverboost doesnt have a hotkey, if it does its not in the controls setting menu.
- hover engines dont tilt, why the hell not?
- why is the turret soo damn slow ?


Hover engines, so the cheat to get your drills to angle down are to add blocks to one end or side to offset the level of the engines. This also makes it a bit harder to maneuver. Also, why the hell cant they pivot when you try to tilt/angle the front end down to do some drilling.

With what Ive seen so far in this game HV are junk and should be removed fromt he game and move everything to the SV.

Recently (latest patch), I ran into a problem that only 1 of 2 harester attachments showed up on the toolbar and only 3 of the 6 T1 drills did the same. I am in creative mode when this happened so I havent yet tried in survival. EDIT:Drills only work in the direction you place the cockpit. This is stupid.

[Death2Gnomes]

HV need to get major redesign.

WTF drills and harvesters only work in the direction of the cockpit ?? how stupid is that?

[Darkayen]

Absolutely not.

1. Redesign your own HV miner to NOT flip over.
2. Learn to drive HV miner (and using a key to position your HV horizontally)

I've tested my miners after latests patch. I saw small difference which is that HV tries to flip over more times than before but I never flipped over even after mining 40+ deposits.

To be honest I've tested many HV miners before last major patch and build my own HV miner which is far better than DrillSeargant or LadyBug. Most HV miners in the workshop are crap.

Good HV miner should:
- not flip over all the time
- be fast (it helps to get out vertically up)
- deccelerate fast (one thruster is not enough)
- be able to position vertically down to the ground from the place where its standing
- be small to be able to rotate in the hole (small height, width and be short)
- have max possible drillers (6)
- light your surrounding (not only front but also sides to actually see what you mine)

95% of HV miners from the workshop cant do that

and I totally agree with Dawg. He gave all good advices :) including positioning of thrusters/hover engines

[Dex]

引用自 Darkayen：

Absolutely not.

1. Redesign your own HV miner to NOT flip over.
2. Learn to drive HV miner (and using a key to position your HV horizontally)

I've tested my miners after latests patch. I saw small difference which is that HV tries to flip over more times than before but I never flipped over even after mining 40+ deposits.

To be honest I've tested many HV miners before last major patch and build my own HV miner which is far better than DrillSeargant or LadyBug. Most HV miners in the workshop are crap.

Good HV miner should:
- not flip over all the time
- be fast (it helps to get out vertically up)
- deccelerate fast (one thruster is not enough)
- be able to position vertically down to the ground from the place where its standing
- be small to be able to rotate in the hole (small height, width and be short)
- have max possible drillers (6)

95% of HV miners from the workshop cant do that

and I totally agree with Dawg. He gave all good advices :) including positioning of thrusters/hover engines

upload your God miner then, i'd love to see it

[Darkayen]

Ok I will upload 9 of my HV miners today. I have also Battle miner with max turrets but its PVP miner so forget that I will upload it BUT I've tested it yesterday and its moving and mining pretty good for such a big size.

and again I totally agree with Dawg.

Building a good HV is really hard. In my opinion harder than BA/CV/SV

[Hecter94]

I've definitely been running into issues using miners made for previous alphas in the new alpha version so I went into creative and ran some tests on the more popular workshop models available. I jotted down some quick notes on each which might help you choose one that works well for you.

Listed below in order of ones that I found to work the least to ones that I found to work the best.

Skorpion Auger: Useless, unfortunately. Great design but drill turrets just don't have the range

Drillbarge: Same problem as the Scorpion, again, unfortunate

X-57 Scout Drill Edition: Too long gets caught really easily

HV3 - Meteor Truck Elite: Works slightly better on meteors than other HVs as the name would suggest but is very unstable for ore node harvesting

Wild Bore: Works well but digs holes way too wide for A7 ore deposits, making it a lot slower

The Ladybug: Still tried and true, cheap and works well enough, but not airtight, low fuel capacity and pretty unstable. Passable as your first miner but not ideal.

Ladybug Mk. 7: Comes equipped with laser drills and a rocket turret by default so it digs faster and with more range than the others, also has some self-defense but I found it to be extremely unstable, continuously getting *stuck* to walls and refusing to stay in the center of a tunnel as well as flipping easily and on more than one occasion just started spinning uncontrollably while I wrangled it back under control. Better than some of the miners below by default, but I can't help but feel any of them with laser drills would work better.

The Ladybig: Slightly better than the ladybug but still only marginally more expensive so might make a better choice as your first miner unless you're very strapped for ore

DHMT - Drill Hole Maker Thing: Works surprisingly well. Dig straight down to make a nice smooth tunnel and radiate off like spokes to get the ore deposits. Main shaft is super easy to climb back up. However it makes a very wide tunnel so it's a bit slower compared to the others. Also not airtight so no mining on evil worlds. Additionally it tends to miss resource deposits directly on the main shaft, either passing right by or getting stuck on them.

Rockhound: Small and cheap, but comes with a constructor, extra cargo, expanded fuel capacity and a pressurized cockpit, not the best in terms of agility but it drills well enough to get the job done. Also technically enough space to mount a turret, drill or MG on top if you remove a shutter door but it tends to get caught on the sides of the hole if you do

DHMT Mk.2: A bit of an upgrade over the original, same strategy applies. The drill turret helps to catch those nodes you miss with the drills but now requires lvl20 and advanced mats. Also longer so it's a bit of a tight fit turning around in the hole you made. Fine if you kept it straight but if you didn't, can get stuck. Drill turret does help with this too though. I suggest loading this in creative, removing the drill turret and saving it again. It works well as a decent mid-range miner if you give it a simple MG instead. Only requires basic ores, Sathium and lv10

Drill Sergeant: One of my favorites, 40mins of fueltime, enough to get to a deposit, mine it and get back, small and agile enough to start a tunnel off the side of a shaft or drill straight up and enough space on top for a turret. Creator recommends a drill turret, but I don't find it necessary and think a simple MG or plasma is better for taking out lightly defended deposits or self defense. Also comes equipped with a pressurized cab. Additionally, for whatever reason using this in 3rd person mode caused my camera to clip through the ground a lot, kind of disorienting but also pretty great for spotting ore deposits. The rock turns invisible but the ore doesn't. Just use 3rd person to find them and 1st person to aim for them. Kind of an ugly design though, in my opinion. Guess a miner doesn't have to be sleek and pretty.


As a sidenote, I'm sure a lot of these used to work great in previous alphas, seems like a bit of a toss-up on whether or not people's designs continued to work well into this alpha. I really wanted the Skorpion to work because I love the design, but again, drill turrets....meh.

[Hecter94]

引用自 Dawg：

Thanks for the list. I may refer to this as I like the lady bug but I PVP and she is really defenseless when running around PVP planets. Though not Drill HV is going to replace a battle tank I like to know I can atleast make my attacker earn his kill. LOL.

For defense, there is this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=838916713
It's fairly well armored and comes with a decent number of turrets. I found it a real pain to mine with though, really wide, not that agile and lacking in reverse thrust.
With a bit of modification it could work as a kinda medium tank miner thing.

[Darkayen]

My first was LadyBug but it was already flipping over so many times... also thrust power wasnt enough and I had hard time to get out from the hole (still it was possible)

Second driller was drill seargant... awesome hv miner but still when you disassembled it you could see that many things can be improved.

First HV miner where I was trully satisfied was Rockhound! Sadly it was pretty wide (7 blocks wide). Anyway it had all I needed.

After lots of testing I found out that thrusters and hover engines work best when are used on the sides. If you will put thrusters near the center then HV will flip over more often.

[Darkayen]

引用自 <| ° _ ° |>™：

引用自 Dawg：

Thanks for the list. I may refer to this as I like the lady bug but I PVP and she is really defenseless when running around PVP planets. Though not Drill HV is going to replace a battle tank I like to know I can atleast make my attacker earn his kill. LOL.

For defense, there is this one:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=838916713
It's fairly well armored and comes with a decent number of turrets. I found it a real pain to mine with though, really wide, not that agile and lacking in reverse thrust.
With a bit of modification it could work as a kinda medium tank miner thing.

You wont find good PVP miner on the workshop. Good PVP miner should mine pretty good but also have big armor at least from the front and firepower (max turrets preferable). This example shows a miner with cockpit on the front... that means that its not for PVP at all beucase if cockpit will get destroyed = the end. My 1 class miner for PVP has 12-18 layers of hardened steel from the front and mobility of ladybug so you can compare how battle between those two would look :P

[Death2Gnomes]

Appreciate all the responses, especially that list, but preaching design doesnt fix everything else thats lacking, HV is the suck and getting stuck in a hole is still because of 1x1 pixel bump in wall that will stop you from getting out or rotating your HV to drill that one spot. Getting out of the miner to level surrounding rock might upright your miner but being deep in a hole still means you have to dig your way out which is colossal waste of time and resources.

If we are stuck relying on using workshop cookie cutter designs to work right for us, why effin bother trying to design our own. this is a major flaw in HV design as well. While the devs dont see it that way, maybe they should consider that there are people that dont have a creative bone in their body but still effin pay hard earned cash for their game.

The other major problem is that ore deopsits were changed and blobs spread out, I can see the need to build huge HV miners with 6+ drills, but if the game is going to pretend that sitting down and not being able to see below you (1st person view) is not an issue needs to visit their local strip mine company and get some effin education. I understand this is only a game but some of this stuff is ridiculous even for a game. Granted I dont want it to be like Osiris mining either.

[Death2Gnomes]

引用自 Dawg：

引用自 Death2Gnomes：

Appreciate all the responses, especially that list, but preaching design doesnt fix everything else thats lacking, HV is the suck and getting stuck in a hole is still because of 1x1 pixel bump in wall that will stop you from getting out or rotating your HV to drill that one spot. Getting out of the miner to level surrounding rock might upright your miner but being deep in a hole still means you have to dig your way out which is colossal waste of time and resources.

If we are stuck relying on using workshop cookie cutter designs to work right for us, why effin bother trying to design our own. this is a major flaw in HV design as well. While the devs dont see it that way, maybe they should consider that there are people that dont have a creative bone in their body but still effin pay hard earned cash for their game.

The other major problem is that ore deopsits were changed and blobs spread out, I can see the need to build huge HV miners with 6+ drills, but if the game is going to pretend that sitting down and not being able to see below you (1st person view) is not an issue needs to visit their local strip mine company and get some effin education. I understand this is only a game but some of this stuff is ridiculous even for a game. Granted I dont want it to be like Osiris mining either.

Well keep in mind that the game is not done. No one is making excuses just giving you needed info. For us that are not creative we have the workshop. What other purpose would it serve. Without these challenges with vehicles the game would get real boring. Idea is to build learn and improve. Most my CV come from WS that I then modify. Give the game time to finish before you get so upset about feeling like you are being sold short.

The way I see it HV mining is severely limited beginning with the cockpit direction and drilling direction. I see no reason not to be able to mount t1 drills in any of the 6 directions. I had imagined a HV miner with drills point in the 4 directions and spinning the entire rig drilling straight down, the problem, again is getting back up out of the hole with that particualr design.

That brings out another flaw of the hoverboost, which for some reason doesnt seem to work for me with my spacebar (it really needs its own hotkey). There really does need to be a REAL booster rocket for jumping out of a hole or better yet to make the HV actually jump over ground, like the hoverboost description says but doesnt actually do.

[chabero]

shift+space=jump, not space only

[Death2Gnomes]

引用自 chabero：

shift+space=jump, not space only

Thanks. Sooo yep, it truly needs its own hotkey, cuz nowhere in game is that shown (in the PDA??) plus using 2 keys is stupid, specially when you are already trying to maneuver with wasd and the arrow keys at the same time.

[Kryzzk]

you have to take the time to learn to design a HV that will be compact but still have the power to do what you want it to, look at what the HV is doing and figure out what it needs to make it not do it as much, and learn to pilot the HV and make it do what you are wanting it to do, I have a HV that will run almost straight up for a fair distance, it is small and I have yet to find a place I could not get it back out of.

That said, I do actually agree, HV's suck, and mastering crappy equipment doesn't make the equipment good, it just makes you a good pilot. The problems with HV Mining is why some have suggested many times that the devs let us add Drills to SV's. In my SP game that is what I use and it works alot better, but they have said it will never happen.

Maybe you should add a suggestion to the Official forums to allow us to use drills placed in different directions, even that would be a plus, A drill facing to the side to make the hole wider as you are drilling without making the miner wider would be of great help, but really, I don't think anything will really fix HV mining.

[Darkayen]

Ok... I spawned LadyBug, DrillSeargant, Rockhound and my own project - DarkLady-OXY.

Most important thing - after latest patch... not much changed regarding mining with those vehicles. Maybe slightly more rollovers but still its very nice. So I can assume that all people who have problems with those miners just dont know how to drive with them. It's not an insult... You must realize that fast mining with those vehicles without rollovers is kinda tricky. I will give you small guide:

Default keys:
C: lower height
Spacebar: raise height
Hold O: stabilize
P: access devices
V: 3rdperson/1stperson
Shift+Spacebar: hover booster
PgUp/PgDn: 3rd person camera up/down

1. First thing you have to do when you go to HV miner is to set 3rd view (V key) and make him fly above the ground as high as possible (spacebar key)... it helps, believe me.
2. Go to ore deposit and point your HV miner vertically down or at least 70-80 degrees to the ground to mine vertically (your miner should do that and all those 4 mentioned miners CAN DO THAT) and start digging a hole.
3. When you are 5-10 meters lower, start mining sides to make your hole wider... BUT here rollovers can start... how to not flip over? how to stay in horizontal position all the time? use AUTOROTATE/STABILIZE key (default O?). I changed this key to my third side mouse key... this helps a lot in all vessels (HV, CV, SV) and I use it a lot.
4. Repeat point 2 and 3 until ore deposit is depleted
5. Now you need to get out from your hole and here is another tricky thing. Drive to the wall, and try to drive vertically up (you might need to use your drillers during that to make your way out. If you are going down or your miner tries to flip over then use SHIFT+SPACEBAR (it will get a boost and you will fly out like a bullet from that hole)

Mentioned 4 vehicles in statistics:
LadyBig
DrillSeargant
Rockhound
DarkLady-OXY

Size comparison (all got height of 3 blocks):
LadyBig: Size 9x5
DarkLady-OXY: Size 9x5
DrillSeargant: Size 10x5
Rockhound: Size 11x7

Speed comparison:
Rockhound: 25ms forward, 10ms backward, 7ms sides
DarkLady-OXY: 20ms forward, 7ms backward, 7ms sides
DrillSeargant: 15ms forward, 10ms backward, 5ms sides
LadyBig: 16ms forward, 8ms backward, 4ms sides

Fuel last for (turned on, not moving):
Rockhound: ~2 hours 10 minutes
DarkLady-OXY: ~1 hour 45 minutes
Ladybig: ~1 hour 40 minutes
DrillSeargant: 48 minutes

Utilities comparison:
DarkLady-OXY: 2 harvest boxes, 2 constructors, 1 fridge
Rockhound: 1 harvest box, 1 constructor, 1 fridge, 1 cargo box
LadyBig: 2 harvest box, 1 constructor, 1 fridge
DrillSeargant: 1 harvest box

Light comparison:
Rockhound: 3 full front/side, 2 sides
DarkLady-OXY: 3 full front/side
Ladybig: 2 front
DrillSeargant: 1 front

RCSs:
DarkLady-OXY: 11
Rockhound: 6
DrillSeargant: 5
Ladybig: 4

My personal opinion on those 4 miners:
LadyBig - Its not sealed so radiation hits you. For oxygen you must go out. Horrible. Good size because its small. Good utilities. Horrible light (it points exacly on the mining fog so its hard to mine at night). Bad speed - this is the only one miner which might have problems with leaving the hole but still its not that bad, requires practise.
DrillSeargant - Slightly bigger but still good size. Better manouverability than ladybug. No utilities, no constructor. The worst light - mining at night will be your nightmare. The smallest fuel capasity. It points down automaticly so weight is not good balanced.
RockHound - My personal best exluding my own miner. Good fuel capasity. Cargo seems to be stupid in my opinion. Awesome light, you see everything at night. Awesome manouverability. Almost no rollovers. Sadly its very big.
DarkLady-OXY - My own project so its hard to judge. Cargo box changed to second constructor. Also 2 harvest boxes so you can mine and mine. Speed is pretty good - what I would upgrade is side speed which is the best from those 4 already. Light points to front/side so you actually see what you mine at night. Size - the smallest from them all. RCS... you can see the difference ^^ Helps against rollovers
Now you can ask yourself how da fk DarkLady-OXY is so small and yet it has all those things. Thats because other 3 projects got useless things.

Personally I use DarkLady-OXY with turret - it helps to get xp, kills drones, and it acts like an alarm if some danger appears.

[Darkayen]

I have uploaded all my 10 HV miners so enjoy ^^ Im also open to criticism. You can comment inside.