Dark Souls respawn really makes no sense in story. Perma death mode needed badly!

[v00d00m4n]

i like most of gameplay, but dark souls style respawn of enemies and character every time you die or visit med bay kinda makes no sense in this game story and really annoying. i wish to find some hack or mod that disables respawn of enemies and pretend like sharacter did not respawn but like last save was loaded after death.

Seriosly who thought it was good idea to respawn same dead corpses that was just ignited or blown to pieces in front of your eyes???

Such thing make sense in Dark Souls world because it actually was part of its lore, in a magic world, but this mechanic absolutely unjustified by lore of THE SURGE, and worse than this - the way enemies die suggest its permanent death, and mechanics simply cotradics what you see.

This mechanic could have worked if instead of blowing up and igniting bodies remaind kicked off and not damaged seriously enough, and if there was some kind of far fetched excuse in story, like. lets say - every npc is filled with nanomachines, that supposed to do repair of exo sceletons, bots and bodies, and somehow activates when they recieve signal from medbay, and whenever you enter it, it sends this signal that activates nanomachines in NON DESTROYED BODIES\BOTS around and they start repair job of mechanical part of bodies and they got restored exactly in place where you left them.


Yet this would make all this limb cutting and head punching mechanics a nonsense because even mechanical part repaired after you smashe some head or tear some body appart its a damage that can be repaired and should be permanent. THe only way i see this to be fixedis removal of anything that looks like perma demage, or some sort of another NANOMACHINES, SON excuse needs to be added, like when you blow someones head, nanomachines recreated some replacment that looke like, i dont know, mass of nanomachine produced goo or something like this. Which means next time you meat beaten enemy it would looke differenet and initially human parts of body would be replaced with some nano♥♥♥♥♥♥♥t goo, to make it relatively believable.

However i think even this excuse has it limits, and there has to be limits on how much you can damage body or limits on body repair, so lets say after each limb damage and its replacment enemy would become weaker because this goo is not even muscles (oh man, this is still bad excuse because dead bodies actually getting hard like stone and even presence of chip could not move a muscle after decay is started, dead cells just dont function anymore, and muscles once they fully dead are useless, even if brain replace by chip, which still rely on alive neural cells to control musles, but that already a problem with lore of this game) and can barely move exo sceleton. Or any damaged limb besides head should not be able to move at, so if you damged arms and legs its perma death of NPC.


But even far fetched excuse like this can not justity respawn of main character in med bay. So there has to be extra excuse for that, i dont know, like since this character is the only alive biological body, not like others (they are dead, right? controlled by chip inside corpses?), me bad sends fllying drone next to you death place and it drags you back to bay, whe not like enemies around you got some kind of different treatment that repairs biological body.

This process of drone taking body back to med bay should have shown at least partially 1st time, then black out and waking up would be enought to make it all realitvely believable, if you wound not ask youself then why other guys around was not delivired to med bay and repaierd biologically before they died, i guess another excuse is needed for this, to explain why their corposed are dead.

Also there has to be excuse of why nanomachines only fix mechanical part of body, but this could be probably tied to reason why all bots are mad in this game, i dont know it yet only started, but i expect some AI related cliche or some mad scientist\ai supporter sabotage to be revealed later, so it could be written in that whatever is the cause also tampered nanomachines repair mode to only work on mechanics.


With excuses like that or something better thant this quck draft i came up in few minutes or something similar but better (i mean nanomachines excuse sucks since MGS4, but you have to spend more time thinking to come upt with better lore idea, it just quick example of something thats is better than nothing), this Dark Souls style of gameplay would be justified enough to make sense and make it believable in context of game story. But problem is there is no such excuse exist in this game at all!

You see, its not a fantasy game like Souls, there is no magic, its a SCIFI game, you have to justify everything to make it look scientiflically and logically possible and belivable.

But when you see boddy ignited, or exploded, without any traces left, and when you die or just use med bay for upgrade, and then witness how exactly same NPC rise up from same place it originally was, it aint rational science its a pure irrational magic, which does not fit to this story, and it casuing cognitive dissonance and this annoyance in your brain, because you just saw that this same enemy was permanently destroyed and there is no way it could be revived, yet its as good as new!

Do you see problem with that, devs??? It just looks ubelivably stupid in context of this game story, and yeah those respawns at exactly same place after you return to medbay getting really old and annoying fast, when you have to beat same enemy 25 times. Somehow it worked with Dark Souls magical lore (yet still was annoying) but it does not work here at all.

Even in Nier Automata this mechanics worked (except that i dont remember it had respawn of exact enemies, it just had some growded areas so enemies apearing again here and therr looked more natural) better because there was excuse for that, and game set it up pretty well in 1st boss battle that explained that after self destruction of body new one got populated with memory back.

And since adding lore excuse to this mechanics will require a lot of rework and nobody would do that (i just hope Surge 2 does not have same problem... but i probably lie to myself, it would be same thing for sure), its just way more easier to simply add official (with patches) or unofficiall (mod that alters some in game scripts and disables respawn or just some memory hack that does same) perma death mode for all NPCs, and simply remove this mechanics AS OPTION FOR THOSE WHO CANT TOLERATION THIS IRRATIONALITY AND PREFER LOGIC OF STORY OVER DARK SOULS STYLE GAMEPLAY.

Oh, one more thing i forgot to mention - this would probably require some minor alteration to "collect your dropped loot" mechanics, it just needs to be disabled and you should keep your loot when you respawn, because this respawn would not techically a respawn but would be more like poorly done checkpoing load, so there is no way you can drop your loot. So preserving it and not loosing any progress except for moving to med bay is the only option here.

And im not sure if it possible without official implementation of such mode in game to save state of all killed monsters, but i have idea for memory hack, its actually possible to write some enemy id, adress, coord and it state to some extra config file relative to save file, and check it and set dead state to previously killed enemies. I really hope that devs are reading this and can help those who prefer rational story and less annoying gameplay, buy adding enemy perma death and keep loot on death toggle into options to fix this problem with dissonance between game story and gameplay.




P.S. - NOTE FOR DS gameplay fanboys - i said as option, it means if you are ok with stupidity of this mechanics in context of story, and if it does not hurt your brain with cognitive dissonance, just play it as is, and dont start to argue with me and dont try to convince me how "GOOD" it is and how it "RATIONAL" and "MAKE SENSE" and how "STUPID" i am for criticizing "PERFECT" game. Just go away from this thread without writing anything in it, and ust keep playing your perfect game, if you like it that way, but i want optional alternative gameplay mode without this stupid respawn... and i hope there are some rational people here who also would prefer to see more rational story and less annoying gameplay without those respawns.


But i guess previous paragraph probably would not stop fans of dark souls gameplay who dont use their logic to think how stupid this mechanics looks in this game, so they most likely will try to excuse this and atack me for opening their eyes on major flaw of game that they believed to be a good thing.

It steam forums after all, so i guess once i citicized something i should always expect horde of fanboys to start ad hominem on me or falsely call me a troll for criticism of their holy grail game...

This always happens on steam, sadly, you cant criticise any game and its poorly done aspects without some blind selfbrainwashing fanboys atackiing and insulting you and telling you that its not stupid design \ writing decision but actually you stupid or that your troll, because you dared to use logic and criticial thinking at thing those fanboys did not even try to look at with brains turned on.

I once started similar thread in NIOH where such mechanics also made no sense, and i explained why it ruins game, and Dark Souls zombie horde tried to eat my brains after that, amount ot stupidity in their attempts to justify DS mechanics was unmeasurably high.

Just recently i tried to talk about flaws of few other games, and its same story every time, many people just dont use their brains and try to farfetch excuse for every stupid, poorly and lazy done things in every game they are fan of, and in their world games dont have flaws, they are pefect. and if you see those flaws, you are stupid and HOW DARE YOU TO CRITICIZE OUR OBJECT OF WORSHIP, HERETIC!

Thats how their logic usually works:

If you criticize something that fanboy enjoy, you surely do this only because you are troll or because you are stupid, and not because devs did something bad and you honnestly want this to be fixed and improved, no no, that impossible, games are always perfect, devs makes no mistake, no stupid decisions, no lazy job, and anyone who says otherwise is stupid or troll. *sarcasm*.

Im just going to ignore any messages like this and blacklist any of such fanboy so that blacklist will make all of messages of such fanboy hidden and i would not read them. So just dont waste your time if you was going to follow this fanboy cliche and say something like i just metioned.

Better go enjoy your respawning npcs in game.

[Dave_Jame]

Ehhh,..... Immersion can be achieved in several ways... not only by mimicing reality. RDR 2 tries to be over realistic but ends up unappealing as hell. You are clearly devoted to your vision and not willing to accept any other options so to save my self from wasting my time on you I will end it here. Have fun the way you want.

[@Ixxmantisxxl]

Long winded and pointless wall of characters and letters formulized into irrational, debatable, and highly opinionated controversial ideals that are your own. Thank you for sharing your opinions on how you feel this game has ruined your day. Also, Please see.

No one cares. Black list me all you want, I followed you from the other postings you have made as well; This isn't a fanboy speaking this is a gamer.

Whole point of this game is to clone the Dark Souls formula and reproduce it in a real world scenario which, it has done.. There are many more points I could make but I feel I don't want to waste my time, that's a business model of the world.

[Tumbling Cat]

I agree with the OP, we need perma-death, but we have to make it fair for both sides.
PERMA-DEATH FOR ALL. WE GET 1 LIFE, ENEMIES GET 1 LIFE. /s

btw, does anyone know how we come back to life after dying?

[Capsssssss]

"I'm going make ridiculously long winded statements that I expect people to read while admitting, quite humbly, that I am a developer genius without providing any proof other than my rambling ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ posts about why I didn't like something"

[REhorror]

I play the demo, but the respawn mechanic can be explained by saying OTHER generic enemies of the same type swarm the areas when you back to rest and health.

There are enemies that do not respawn and the path you open up remains the same, and this means there's linear timeline progression and the world does not reset every times you go back to med bays

[Aigle1705]

to cut this short the irina story kinda exists to vertify the whole respawn thing.
these bodys do die yes. and warren dies as well yes.
but that silly program keeps reprogramming bodies that are still functional. uploading more important minds into their bodys.
another prover would be the final audiolog of the GBA dlc, when she shows up to save the marketing dude.

the other option would be... when you entered the job centre for the first time, no matter which job you picked you got VR glasses.
So yea your playing a dude playing videogames while working. n your not playing him working. you re playing him playing video games :D i mean there even is a commercial running in central b focusing on that idea

[Vulkan]

Imagine caring this much xD

[v00d00m4n]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Gamblin'Aigle:

to cut this short the irina story kinda exists to vertify the whole respawn thing.
these bodys do die yes. and warren dies as well yes.
but that silly program keeps reprogramming bodies that are still functional. uploading more important minds into their bodys.
another prover would be the final audiolog of the GBA dlc, when she shows up to save the marketing dude.

the other option would be... when you entered the job centre for the first time, no matter which job you picked you got VR glasses.
So yea your playing a dude playing videogames while working. n your not playing him working. you re playing him playing video games :D i mean there even is a commercial running in central b focusing on that idea

It does not reprogram bodies that are still functional, exactly same bodies in exactly same places getting respawned, its not the other bodies, its the same that you just destroyed and that was ignited and vaporised with no way to return to existance. This game does not give a ♥♥♥♥ about basic logic of narration and justitfication, thats the problem.

Devs should have at least randomize apearance and placement of respawned enemies to make them look like those are different enemies and not the same that just turned to dust.

[Outsider]

Do you expect anybody to read all that?

[InstableMonster]

No wonder OP gets banned from almost every forum he visits

[StephBx]

Since you need scraps to craft your gear, ugrade it, your weapons and core along with specific crafting parts for each category, that you need to collect those parts from a minimum of three separate corps for each armor part or weapon. You need at least 18 NPC with the correct equipement just to craft a full set of armor without messing up your finishing cut. I am not sure there is that much lynx units on the first map with the correct parts equiped to have a full set when you meet the boss. And I am not talking about what you need to build a Cerberus set.

Following your idea, The player cannot finish the game with one of the higher end armors since he will not have the core power or parts to buils upgrade and equip it.
Not without a complet rebuilding of the crafting mecanism.

[v00d00m4n]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από vigierstephane:

Since you need scraps to craft your gear, ugrade it, your weapons and core along with specific crafting parts for each category, that you need to collect those parts from a minimum of three separate corps for each armor part or weapon. You need at least 18 NPC with the correct equipement just to craft a full set of armor without messing up your finishing cut. I am not sure there is that much lynx units on the first map with the correct parts equiped to have a full set when you meet the boss. And I am not talking about what you need to build a Cerberus set.

Following your idea, The player cannot finish the game with one of the higher end armors since he will not have the core power or parts to buils upgrade and equip it.
Not without a complet rebuilding of the crafting mecanism.

Complete rebuilding not necessary.

With perma death of NPCs you just need to rize amount of loot, lets say 10x times and problem solved, you got 1 kill equal to 10 kills, so limitation of amount of NPCs compenstated. And this is should not affect main game mode, should only be active if "perm death of npc" enabled.

[Big Brother]

There is absolutely no way you just typed all that just for it to be a nothing burger😭

[luntacarsus]

There is absolutely no way you just necroed a five year old thread just for it to be a nothing burger.

[f**k cancer]

WHOOO proper necro that , call the dude nagash xD