Taffington Boathouse is sinking

[MF]

I can't explain this one. Was out exploring, found this place, steppedinside the door and immediately fell thru the floor into the water. There are people inside........ but their heads just stick out of the floor.

"Eff this place" I said to myself. Went back to Sanctuary and, wouldn't you know it, got a message that Taffington was being attacked. By bigass robots no less.

So is this a regular occurring bug or is it just me ? Frankly it's the first real bad glitch I've found so far.

[Nitemares]

Originally posted by MF:

Originally posted by Nitemares:

The most common effects of the "tgm" command are:

Instant death due to rad poisoning when the command is removed.
Instant death due to 0 health after the command is removed due to an environmental tag (Lava being the most common... IE sargus ironworks)
Forever locked in a "burning" state
Forever locked into an "exploded" state
Quest objectives not triggering.
Quest markers/triggers not acknowledging the player (so events don't fire off, locking quests into an incomplete state forever - Kellogg talking to you on the intercom, Gage and the intercom, Overboss and the intercom, Father and the intercom... Seeing a pattern here?)

Well I guess some people play the game and quest in god mode. I don't do that. I only turn it on a bit at a time, 99.999% of the time for building in my settlement. Hopefully that's OK with the demigods of Bethesda and the gremlins currying about inside the game itself.

Sadly nothing concrete.

Found a couple of Reddit posts about the issue with talk of the "kneecapper" becoming random on Big Jim since the 1.10.984 even though all official sources say it should have kneecapper.

Then a couple of other posts in the mod developer forums on Nexus with a couple of experienced modders talking about it and other named weapons seeming to be affected by the level list now instead of the items being static. They are unsure if the change is intentional or just a bug, but were trying to track it down to be sure.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Nitemares:

Originally posted by MF:

Well I guess some people play the game and quest in god mode. I don't do that. I only turn it on a bit at a time, 99.999% of the time for building in my settlement. Hopefully that's OK with the demigods of Bethesda and the gremlins currying about inside the game itself.

Sadly nothing concrete.

Found a couple of Reddit posts about the issue with talk of the "kneecapper" becoming random on Big Jim since the 1.10.984 even though all official sources say it should have kneecapper.

Then a couple of other posts in the mod developer forums on Nexus with a couple of experienced modders talking about it and other named weapons seeming to be affected by the level list now instead of the items being static. They are unsure if the change is intentional or just a bug, but were trying to track it down to be sure.

Looking at it in the Creation Kit, Big Jim is put together by a quest called CustomItemQuest. The quest has property sets for about thirty different legendary weapons, each identifying the item it should target and a list of the legendary effects to use on it. But for Big Jim, that list only contains the Kneecapper effect.

The script itself looks fairly basic too; it loads the property set data and uses it to attach an effect from the list in that property set to an item from the same property set. There's some routine coding messages in there, but nothing that should work differently from one object to the next. All the items in the quest are feeding their properties through the same script.

If there were something wrong with the quest itself, you should see problems with other items, and those include some obvious examples like Kellogg's Pistol, Pickman's Blade, Virgil's Rifle, and Grognak's Axe. So if there's been some specific change, I'd have to think it's with the lists for each item.

Without confirming it in an unmodded game, and the issues being part of a modding discussion, I'd mostly suspect it being the result of a mod interaction. Bethesda isn't in the habit of coming back to make these sort of tweaks, and even the Creation Club content that was added with the update is still vetted by them.

[Nitemares]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Nitemares:

Sadly nothing concrete.

Found a couple of Reddit posts about the issue with talk of the "kneecapper" becoming random on Big Jim since the 1.10.984 even though all official sources say it should have kneecapper.

Then a couple of other posts in the mod developer forums on Nexus with a couple of experienced modders talking about it and other named weapons seeming to be affected by the level list now instead of the items being static. They are unsure if the change is intentional or just a bug, but were trying to track it down to be sure.

Looking at it in the Creation Kit, Big Jim is put together by a quest called CustomItemQuest. The quest has property sets for about thirty different legendary weapons, each identifying the item it should target and a list of the legendary effects to use on it. But for Big Jim, that list only contains the Kneecapper effect.

The script itself looks fairly basic too; it loads the property set data and uses it to attach an effect from the list in that property set to an item from the same property set. There's some routine coding messages in there, but nothing that should work differently from one object to the next. All the items in the quest are feeding their properties through the same script.

If there were something wrong with the quest itself, you should see problems with other items, and those include some obvious examples like Kellogg's Pistol, Pickman's Blade, Virgil's Rifle, and Grognak's Axe. So if there's been some specific change, I'd have to think it's with the lists for each item.

Without confirming it in an unmodded game, and the issues being part of a modding discussion, I'd mostly suspect it being the result of a mod interaction. Bethesda isn't in the habit of coming back to make these sort of tweaks, and even the Creation Club content that was added with the update is still vetted by them.

I agree.
I'm mostly a "face roller" when it comes to the creation kit, but I couldn't find any faults in the code between 1.10.163 and 1.10.984, and I am not having this issue at all with Big Jim, even on a modded play through...

So for me that tells me either its a random bug introduced through script failure (be that time outs or what have you), Or an over-ride by a mod of some sort.

Even how many mods there are, and how often the bug is getting reported since the 1.10.984 patch, leaves me with a couple of conclusions (as well as others with more skill):

1: The 1.10.984 code changes are interacting with a common -probably un-updated- mod that is interacting with the item/script in some unforeseen way.

2: A framework mod is (intentional or not) re-directing the script to its internal script that has changed Big Jim and several other items.

3: Unofficial patch mucking up.

which one it is.... no one seems to know, and to make matters worse, it could be a combo effect, meaning it takes several mods in conjunction to reproduce the issue :(

[MF]

Originally posted by Nitemares:

On a related topic, I just got attacked by a legendary feral ghoul. He dropped a shotgun that has the raiation legendary effect. i.e. 50 additional radiation damage. Pretty sweet, except that I'm not a huge fan of shotguns per se. Hauled it back to my workbench but don't see anything that I can 'remove', so as to put it on another weapon.

Makes me wonder again how did that prick take 'kneecapper' off of Big Jim and put it onto a pipe rifle ? Wish I could find the damn video....

[Nitemares]

Originally posted by MF:

Originally posted by Nitemares:

On a related topic, I just got attacked by a legendary feral ghoul. He dropped a shotgun that has the raiation legendary effect. i.e. 50 additional radiation damage. Pretty sweet, except that I'm not a huge fan of shotguns per se. Hauled it back to my workbench but don't see anything that I can 'remove', so as to put it on another weapon.

Makes me wonder again how did that prick take 'kneecapper' off of Big Jim and put it onto a pipe rifle ? Wish I could find the damn video....

Mods.

You can't remove legendary effects without mods...

With the exception of Krimva's tooth... no idea why that one you can and the others you can not.

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/67679

This is the first in a series of mods that allows you to do that.,

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Nitemares:

With the exception of Krimva's tooth... no idea why that one you can and the others you can not.

For some reason, they decided to put the legendary effect on as a "Sacrificial Blade" mod part that could be attached and detached, rather than the normal style of a legendary mod part, which has no physical presence and is permanently attached to the base weapon (all legendary effects are item mods as far as the game's mechanics are concerned).

Personally, I think it would have worked better if they'd followed that pattern for all "legendary" effects. Gathering and attaching advanced and/or experimental parts that cause different effects would fit the sci-fi style of the Fallout universe better than one where you find effects that are magically part of a weapon regardless of how you modify it.

[Nitemares]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Nitemares:

With the exception of Krimva's tooth... no idea why that one you can and the others you can not.

For some reason, they decided to put the legendary effect on as a "Sacrificial Blade" mod part that could be attached and detached, rather than the normal style of a legendary mod part, which has no physical presence and is permanently attached to the base weapon (all legendary effects are item mods as far as the game's mechanics are concerned).

Personally, I think it would have worked better if they'd followed that pattern for all "legendary" effects. Gathering and attaching advanced and/or experimental parts that cause different effects would fit the sci-fi style of the Fallout universe better than one where you find effects that are magically part of a weapon regardless of how you modify it.

yea it was an odd choice... makes me wonder if it was the first incarnation of their legendary system that got changed, and its just a left over relic... or if they had some special reason for the distinction..

As for Legendary effects, I have to say... after years of play, I don't really pay attention to them much any more.. But one of the first times I did was find a mod that allowed me to swap them around... I HATE the vanilla guns too much to use them and modded in good models of real weapons... so now I just transfer them effects to the new models if I find an effect I want.
but guns and ammo are so rare in my current game (by choice) that I am not missing them or the legendary effects much at all.

[MF]

On my second playthru I eventually made it back again and.... yup - fell right thru the floor as soon as I walked thru the door. It really seems to be something uniquely farked about that location. This time though I'm supposed to put up a beacon and start a settlement, so I needed a fix.

Gentleman, I have found a solution. It's as simple as putting down some rugs on the floor. You can walk over those and not fall thru the floor itself. Amazing. It's a very cool little house and I really didn't want to have to scrap it and start from scratch.