Cait or Piper?

[Zes]

Which one should I romance with?

Piper is soft and smart.
Cait is wild, uneducated but realistic.

I like them both in some ways, but Cait has a different appeal, looks though but she is not.. Piper talks too much and i don't like helping-people-allthetime attitudes..

Or should I go for polygamy.. well, not bad for evolutionary approach :d

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2655509749

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Human, though I use mods to make her prettier haha (or I change her looks in the LooksMenu which is.... kind of difficult for Curie as she is set in the files as male even though she uses a female skin, so you have to create a second copy of her that is actually female from her base iD, edit that one, disable it... then recycle her male version to load up the one you just changed. Also performing a sex change on her won't fix it either, as that causes the skins to not even load properly on her. Weird.)

From what I can see in the Creation Kit, it's only the robot version of her that's not marked as female, at least in the vanilla, unmodded game.

Presumably that's because the female setting is used to swap the body type for humanoid races, while the robot races (and other races) don't have separate body types anyway. For example KL-E-0 (assaultron race) is not tagged as female, and neither is a mirelurk queen (mirelurk queen race).

The weirder thing with Curie is that there are three different entries for her, rather than two. You've got the robot form, then a Gen 3 synth form, then the actual companion form which is templated from the other Gen 3 synth form. I'm guessing there was some technical awkwardness with the exchange from robot to synth body that this somehow solved.

EDIT: Rather than being templated from the Gen 3 form, the companion form seems to be overwritten with whichever of the other two forms is appropriate depending on how you've advanced in the story. Which makes more sense.

[Scoops Robin for DBD]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Human, though I use mods to make her prettier haha (or I change her looks in the LooksMenu which is.... kind of difficult for Curie as she is set in the files as male even though she uses a female skin, so you have to create a second copy of her that is actually female from her base iD, edit that one, disable it... then recycle her male version to load up the one you just changed. Also performing a sex change on her won't fix it either, as that causes the skins to not even load properly on her. Weird.)

From what I can see in the Creation Kit, it's only the robot version of her that's not marked as female, at least in the vanilla, unmodded game.

Presumably that's because the female setting is used to swap the body type for humanoid races, while the robot races (and other races) don't have separate body types anyway. For example KL-E-0 (assaultron race) is not tagged as female, and neither is a mirelurk queen (mirelurk queen race).

The weirder thing with Curie is that there are three different entries for her, rather than two. You've got the robot form, then a Gen 3 synth form, then the actual companion form which is templated from the other Gen 3 synth form. I'm guessing there was some technical awkwardness with the exchange from robot to synth body that this somehow solved.

Yea, it looks that way in the creation kit because her base ID for her human form shows male, but for some reason in game it keeps that male designation even after she changes form so if you try to use looks menu to edit her appearance she ends up looking all glitchy because you are trying to put a female appearance on a male body. So like I said, you have to spawn a copy using her base ID, edit that one, then disable it and recycle her. She's the only character like that and it's super weird.

This video explains how to do it (though the guy spends way too much time messing around with it...)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcLtBEhhJG4

[ROSCO]

Cait all the way. Go for the broken girls.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Yea, it looks that way in the creation kit because her base ID for her human form shows male, but for some reason in game it keeps that male designation even after she changes form so if you try to use looks menu to edit her appearance she ends up looking all glitchy because you are trying to put a female appearance on a male body. So like I said, you have to spawn a copy using her base ID, edit that one, then disable it and recycle her. She's the only character like that and it's super weird.

In my unmodded game, the base ID for both of her Gen 3 synth/human forms have her marked as female. It's only the base ID for her original robot form that's doesn't have the female box checked, because it's a robot race that only has one body design anyway.

The video shows spawning a copy of her Gen 3 synth/human form, turning off its AI so it doesn't walk around, and then using the SLM to select one of a variety of modded appearance presets. As far as it shows, there's nothing wrong with her female setting.

I personally don't play around much with the appearance settings of characters other than my own, but if she has display issues they're not going to be related to her having the female setting because that's correct. They might possibly have something to do with her being templated from an identical form, since it's not clear exactly why that exists in the first place.

EDIT: I should note that they do seem to have done something that locks down her appearance, making the SLM command not normally work properly with her in the vanilla game when you alter her directly, but I don't see anything indicating it's based on her gender setting. The video seems to be bypassing it by altering a copy instead which feeds back through and adjusts the original.

[Xenon The Noble]

Curie is cute and smart and hates everything you need to do.
Cait is cute and smart and sassy and hates every good thing you do.
Piper is sexy and smart and sassy and egotistical and a hate monger and a moon-bat.
Dogmeat is best. Dogmeat is a good companion. Dogmeat is loyal no matter what. After Lillith and then Eve betrayed Adam, God Almighty created the dogs as an apology.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Curie is cute and smart and hates everything you need to do.
Cait is cute and smart and sassy and hates every good thing you do.
Piper is sexy and smart and sassy and egotistical and a hate monger and a moon-bat.
Dogmeat is best. Dogmeat is a good companion. Dogmeat is loyal no matter what. After Lillith and then Eve betrayed Adam, God Almighty created the dogs as an apology.

Dogmeat also hates everything you do, he just lacks the means to say so. Every doorway he blocks and every second he spends just barely out of your reach as you try to swap items with him is an expression of his true feelings.

[Zes]

You dont have to do always what they like.
1 or more disliked actions doesnt mean a break up..

[Scoops Robin for DBD]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Yea, it looks that way in the creation kit because her base ID for her human form shows male, but for some reason in game it keeps that male designation even after she changes form so if you try to use looks menu to edit her appearance she ends up looking all glitchy because you are trying to put a female appearance on a male body. So like I said, you have to spawn a copy using her base ID, edit that one, then disable it and recycle her. She's the only character like that and it's super weird.

In my unmodded game, the base ID for both of her Gen 3 synth/human forms have her marked as female. It's only the base ID for her original robot form that's doesn't have the female box checked, because it's a robot race that only has one body design anyway.

The video shows spawning a copy of her Gen 3 synth/human form, turning off its AI so it doesn't walk around, and then using the SLM to select one of a variety of modded appearance presets. As far as it shows, there's nothing wrong with her female setting.

I personally don't play around much with the appearance settings of characters other than my own, but if she has display issues they're not going to be related to her having the female setting because that's correct. They might possibly have something to do with her being templated from an identical form, since it's not clear exactly why that exists in the first place.

EDIT: I should note that they do seem to have done something that locks down her appearance, making the SLM command not normally work properly with her in the vanilla game when you alter her directly, but I don't see anything indicating it's based on her gender setting. The video seems to be bypassing it by altering a copy instead which feeds back through and adjusts the original.

Yes, her base iD is female, but the spawned version is male but uses the Base ID's look. It's very weird. IT has nothing to do with the way he's editing the appearance with the presets, that's just how the LooksMenu mod works to make it easy to quickly edit characters.

The way the game works is every character has a BASEID (or FORMID) and a REFID. Like Piper's BaseID is 2F1E and her RefID is 2F1F. Both are female as you'd expect, but for some reason Curie's RefID version is male and that's what creates the issue with modifying her appearance. You have to spawn a new copy that is female from her BASEID, edit that, then reset the actual version's appearance to match. Curie is the only companion that is like this, no idea why. In fact, you can play in a completely unmodded game other than "better console" that gives you expanded info on things, and you will see that the synth form Curie shows as male in the console. This is why she is "locked down" the way she is (though again, not sure why she is done this way, just that she is,)

EDIT: Also the command to change appearance of any character, like let's say Piper... would be ShowLooksMenu 2f1f. You can do this even in a vanilla game. The looks menu mod just adds the slm command as a quicker shortcut.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

The way the game works is every character has a BASEID (or FORMID) and a REFID. Like Piper's BaseID is 2F1E and her RefID is 2F1F. Both are female as you'd expect, but for some reason Curie's RefID version is male and that's what creates the issue with modifying her appearance. You have to spawn a new copy that is female from her BASEID, edit that, then reset the actual version's appearance to match. Curie is the only companion that is like this, no idea why. In fact, you can play in a completely unmodded game other than "better console" that gives you expanded info on things, and you will see that the synth form Curie shows as male in the console. This is why she is "locked down" the way she is (though again, not sure why she is done this way, just that she is,)

Yes, I agree on how the form and ref IDs work.

However, I'm playing a completely unmodded game (no mods at all), and when her reference ID (102249) has its synth form, it's female according to the GetIsSex console command. The same reference ID with her robot form registers as male.

Looking at the Creation Kit data a second time, what I believe the game is doing is stamping either the robot or synth version of Curie onto the reference ID for her as a companion (which doesn't even have a definite form as shown in its original location, and is made from an entirely separate base ID). It's this overwrite that allows Curie to change between robot and synth. But it stops you from using SLM directly on the reference ID, because any changes to its own appearance are overwritten.

The solution (as we've seen) is to spawn and alter a reference from the base ID (1647C6) being used to overwrite her.

[Scoops Robin for DBD]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

The way the game works is every character has a BASEID (or FORMID) and a REFID. Like Piper's BaseID is 2F1E and her RefID is 2F1F. Both are female as you'd expect, but for some reason Curie's RefID version is male and that's what creates the issue with modifying her appearance. You have to spawn a new copy that is female from her BASEID, edit that, then reset the actual version's appearance to match. Curie is the only companion that is like this, no idea why. In fact, you can play in a completely unmodded game other than "better console" that gives you expanded info on things, and you will see that the synth form Curie shows as male in the console. This is why she is "locked down" the way she is (though again, not sure why she is done this way, just that she is,)

Yes, I agree on how the form and ref IDs work.

However, I'm playing a completely unmodded game (no mods at all), and when her reference ID (102249) has its synth form, it's female according to the GetIsSex console command. The same reference ID with her robot form registers as male.

Looking at the Creation Kit data a second time, what I believe the game is doing is stamping either the robot or synth version of Curie onto the reference ID for her as a companion (which doesn't even have a definite form as shown in its original location, and is made from an entirely separate base ID). It's this overwrite that allows Curie to change between robot and synth. But it stops you from using SLM directly on the reference ID, because any changes to its own appearance are overwritten.

The solution (as we've seen) is to spawn and alter a reference from the base ID (1647C6) being used to overwrite her.

Well, thing is you can do ShowLooksMenu on her synth form directly, but it glitches her out because it's trying to load a female look onto a male body. It lets you TRY because her baseID is female which may still be what the vanilla game GetIsSex command is checking what the BaseID says it should be. The reason it works the way it does is you have to change that baseID look so that is loading instead, since she's "unique" all copies of her will look the same. No other companion has that problem because they are all matching BaseID gender and RefID gender. Like I said, BetterConsole doesn't add anything, just shows stuff that is already there quickly and easily. It shows that yes her BaseID is female, but her RefID is male. I'd get a screenshot, but I don't think I have any currently available saves that I have a Synth Curie to show you.

I've read about this extensively on modding sites and talking to modders about how weird Curie is in the game files.

Also she doesn't have a single RefID, she actually has two, same with her FormID

Form ID
00027686 (Miss Nanny)
001647C6 (synth)
Ref ID
000865D1 (Miss Nanny [Container])
00102249 (Companion)

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Well, thing is you can do ShowLooksMenu on her synth form directly, but it glitches her out because it's trying to load a female look onto a male body. It lets you TRY because her baseID is female which may still be what the vanilla game GetIsSex command is checking what the BaseID says it should be. The reason it works the way it does is you have to change that baseID look so that is loading instead, since she's "unique" all copies of her will look the same. No other companion has that problem because they are all matching BaseID gender and RefID gender. Like I said, BetterConsole doesn't add anything, just shows stuff that is already there quickly and easily. It shows that yes her BaseID is female, but her RefID is male. I'd get a screenshot, but I don't think I have any currently available saves that I have a Synth Curie to show you.

I think the BetterConsole must be doing giving the wrong data to you, because the GetIsSex command is run on the the reference, not the base ID. The sex setting is also used to control the body type being used, and Curie in her synth form is quite obviously using the female body form without any issues.

If the issue were putting a female look on a male body, Curie would already have that problem in her normal form, since she already has a female look and it works just fine. It's not an issue with the sex setting.

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

I've read about this extensively on modding sites and talking to modders about how weird Curie is in the game files.

I think they must have gotten the wrong idea somehow, since it doesn't match what I'm seeing in the Creation Kit or the game. It also doesn't match the solution you're using, which makes sense for her reference being overwritten, but not for a sex issue.

Originally posted by Scoops Robin for DBD:

Also she doesn't have a single RefID, she actually has two, same with her FormID

Form ID
00027686 (Miss Nanny)
001647C6 (synth)
Ref ID
000865D1 (Miss Nanny [Container])
00102249 (Companion)

There are a total of three Curie Form IDs:

00027686 (companion)
001846CB (Miss Nanny)
001647C6 (synth)

The companion form ID (27686) is used for her companion reference (102249), and if you check Curie as your companion in both robot and synth form, you'll see she has the same 102249 ref ID the entire time. Initially, this reference ID is located in Vault 81 as you'd expect.

The Miss Nanny form ID (1846CB) is only used directly to produce a reference ID (865D1) that appears in the Memory Den, and is a dummy robot body left behind when you transfer Curie to her synth body. It would also be used for her robot appearance, but that application has no associated ref ID, because it's just a change to the companion ref ID.

The synth form ID (1647C6) is used for the synth appearance of the companion reference ID 102249. It has no references of its own, but it's the one you need to spawn a reference of and alter because it's used for her synth appearance.

[[IDN/IDR] Átlās]

on bedside manner, Cait is hardcore while Piper more erotic.
i go both cuz i have mood swings, HAHAHA !

[Scoops Robin for DBD]

Yes, and when you attempt to edit Curie directly as you can do with every other companion, when you try to use a female template it doesn't work. You can only use male templates, and that's because that companion form registers as male (even though it shouldn't) for some reason. So you spawn the female copy, edit it, and then that imposes over the "male" companion. The GetIsSex command must be still accessing what the BaseID creates when you spawn a new copy is all I can think of. In fact, if you do "SexChange" on that Curie she shows as female in BetterConsole and you can then do female templates but they end up all glitched out looking like you are trying to put a female template on top of a male. There is a LOT going on in the game files that the Creation Kit doesn't show you, that's why many modders still use the old Fo4 Edit program that they used before the CK was released.

[Iron Knights]

As far as looks, I can certainly say that most female companions and some settlers, have the male body type, I have not tried going in to change that, Cait definitely.

[Ferenando]

cait