so FEV is a Virus right and most viruses spread...

[Von Faustien]

So do you think some kind of offshoot of the normal super mutants than can spread itself to new hoists would be a neat idea? you could lean back into the more ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up mutants like classic era Centaurs and floaters or even the master and his vault of meat moss given they wouldn't be a result of controlled exposure and have them slowly spreading the fev infection out like Dagoth Urs blight minions in morrowind.

[Heimdall313]

FEV19 when

[Xenon The Noble]

I think it's poorly written fiction that was made for a game and not a book.

[Necron Monolith ₿]

'course it is, that's why it's a game & not a book. Go read a book to feel elucidated. VN guy.

[Knightmage Bael]

There's actually a fair bit of information if you're willing to use logical deduction.

[globefish23]

It could be genetically modified that their reproduction cycle only works in the precence of certain molecules that don't occur naturally in the wild.

Something similar is done in real life with laboratory bacteria that are modified to require certain nutrients that don't exist outside the lab, so they will starve to death.

Of course, spontaneous mutations can happen, with the organism losing those modifications.

[Bored Peon]

While I think the original FEV strains are non-transmittable. Only makes common sense and logical to make the virus inert while you develop it. Pretty safe to assume you could drink blood form a super mutant and not get the virus. Otherwise there would be stories and rumors of people would have had blood contact and turned before.

However that would not stop it from combining with some other virus to become transmittable. The only problem is the FEV is designed to fix and repair genetic defects, so it would probably fight such a virus off,

Someone would have genetically alter the virus to make it transmittable, which you would have to be like insane, have a death wish, or such a big ego you think you cannot make mistakes of having any escape.

Now what if it did spread though? From there you get contradictions in the lore. According to Fallout 3 lore everyone has a trace of the FEV in them already. Which was how the Enclave were going to kill everyone by putting an anti-FEV virus into Project Purity.

Then you got creatures that have already changes from FEV exposure, whom may not change any futher?

From a developer stand point it would have been better to allow it to be transmittable so they would have easy reason why some new critter they make up exists.

I think the Scorched in Appalachia was a FEV based virus? The FEV changed a bat into a Scorchbeast then it spread the disease to everything but super mutants and ghouls.

[Vesperas]

Ignoring the fact that it's a game and its lore exists within the realm of science fiction...

Not necessarily. Viruses can spread through a variety of means and not all of them remain viable for long outside of their vehicular capsule.

The FEV is described as a man-made metavirus. As such, it makes sense.

If you're given a vaccine, you're provided an inoculated virus or RNA alternative. Neither of them can cause replication nor can they spread. They still trigger an immune response and your body is still able to produce antibodies specific to the actual viruses they're intended for though.

In order for the FEV to spread, it seems to require exposure to it in its encapsulated form, which Fallout lore scientifically describes as "green stuff."

[globefish23]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

If you're given a vaccine, you're provided an inoculated virus or RNA alternative. Neither of them can cause replication, nor can they spread. They still trigger an immune response and your body is still able to produce antibodies specific to the actual viruses they're intended for.

Well, only if the manufacturer does a proper job and doesn't fail the inactivation process.
That happened in real-life with some batches of the early small pox vaccine in the 1950s, where the virus wasn't inactivated properly and several children died from the pox.

[Vesperas]

It's unfortunate and shouldn't have happened. There's always a risk involved, sadly. All too often it's attributed to the vaccine or the science behind it when in fact, it's actually just Capitalism being Capitalism, businesses looking for ways to cut corners to increase production or make a cheaper product.

It doesn't help that the government allows businesses to export so much of its production overseas either. I feel like too many of our pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, and commonly used items are produced in horrid places, like China and India, all for the sake of making cheaper products because neither of them have much in terms of environmental regulations.

It's cheaper to just dump the toxic slime into the river than to collect and dispose of it properly.

[globefish23]

Originally posted by Vesperas:

It's unfortunate and shouldn't have happened. There's always a risk involved, sadly. All too often it's attributed to the vaccine or the science behind it when in fact, it's actually just Capitalism being Capitalism, businesses looking for ways to cut corners to increase production or make a cheaper product.

It doesn't help that the government allows businesses to export so much of its production overseas either. I feel like too many of our pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, and commonly used items are produced in horrid places, like China and India, all for the sake of making cheaper products because neither of them have much in terms of environmental regulations.

It's cheaper to just dump the toxic slime into the river than to collect and dispose of it properly.

Yup.
Worst example is the one of thalidomide in the 1950s and 1960s, which was used against morning sickness and anxiety in pregnant women, but caused birth defects in the babies (short, deformed limbs, etc.).
10,000 cases in 46 countries, because the company continued to sell it in other countries, even after it had already been banned in Germany after the discovery of its teratogenity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

While I think the original FEV strains are non-transmittable. Only makes common sense and logical to make the virus inert while you develop it. Pretty safe to assume you could drink blood form a super mutant and not get the virus. Otherwise there would be stories and rumors of people would have had blood contact and turned before.

I've actually suggested something a bit like this before, as a way for future games to have a lot of extra mutants without completely breaking the base ideas of FEV.

Essentially, exposure to super mutant blood could make "second-stage mutants", infected by super mutant blood instead of regular FEV. Outwardly similar to regular mutants (so most people would think they're the same as standard super mutants), or maybe a bit less dramatically changed.

If you can get enough blood, you can make as many second stage mutants as you like, but the catch is that you need enough fresh blood to dip someone in it. So if they can't find a proper source of FEV you get super mutants capturing a behemoth to bleed and bolster their ranks with second-stage mutants.

In short, you could have the blood be infectious, but not work anywhere near as well as true FEV. So you won't turn mutant just from being splattered or swallowing a bit of super mutant blood, but you could get some changes if a creature or place is liberally soaked in it, or maybe if something fed on it over and over again.

[Chaosium]

Wear a mask and you'll be fine

[DouglasGrave]

Broadly, I don't personal think making the FEV an instant infect-everything effect works for the style of super mutants. Part of the specifically horrible bit of their story is that they're capturing people to change them intentionally, not just walking around like big green versions of Typhoid Mary.

If they easily infect everything it crosses over from shooting violent mutants to fighting a pandemic.

[Vesperas]

Originally posted by globefish23:

Yup.
Worst example is the one of thalidomide in the 1950s and 1960s, which was used against morning sickness and anxiety in pregnant women, but caused birth defects in the babies (short, deformed limbs, etc.).
10,000 cases in 46 countries, because the company continued to sell it in other countries, even after it had already been banned in Germany after the discovery of its teratogenity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide_scandal

Sadly, I'm aware. I work in a hospital preparing intravenous medications for people. Thalidomide is still used for some cancer treatments, and medications like isotretinoin, generally used for acne, can also cause teratogenic effects.

The United States established a program called iPledge to educate patients about it before they're allowed to participate in treatments that use those medications. I'm assuming other countries have similar programs. Sadly, it wasn't until after it had caused a lot of damage that the United States did so.

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

While I think the original FEV strains are non-transmittable. Only makes common sense and logical to make the virus inert while you develop it. Pretty safe to assume you could drink blood form a super mutant and not get the virus. Otherwise there would be stories and rumors of people would have had blood contact and turned before.

However that would not stop it from combining with some other virus to become transmittable. The only problem is the FEV is designed to fix and repair genetic defects, so it would probably fight such a virus off,

This is my assumption as well.

Not all viruses affect (or can infect) humans. The majority of viruses in existence actually infect bacteria, and among those, most are harmless to humans. Some viruses are primarily transmitted through ingestion, such as hepatitis A & E, some are through parenteral contact of bodily fluids, hepatitis B, C, & D, some are respiratory, some can cause infection across different species, etc.

My assumption is that the FEV is a staged infection, which would work like this:

When a human is exposed to the "green stuff," it is absorbed or metabolized into an intermediary form, which is then further broken down, eventually leaving the encapsulated vehicle that the virus is able to use to eventually cause infection.

I'm assuming that the vehicular capsule that the virus lives in simply cannot exist on its own and without the capsule, the virus is either destroyed or becomes inert, unable to cause infection.

For example, if we look at something like anti-freeze, we all know (I hope!) that ingesting it can lead to serious illness or death. However, it doesn't instantly do so.

Anti-freeze, aka ethylene glycol, has to first be broken down into glycoaldehyde. Once it has become glycoaldehyde, your body then proceeds to further break it down into glycolate, glyoxylate, and oxalate, but it isn't until it reaches the point where it's broken down into glycolate and oxalate that it actually becomes toxic and begins causing damage.

[Anvos]

The issue is largely if your not a vault dweller, Enclave, or private vault/shelter dweller the whole world already has low grade FEV exposure, and thus you need a high dose of FEV to prompt radical changes on par with supermutants.