Why was weapon condition disliked?

[rept]

I get that armor health was usually too low but weapon condition was useful for balance. It was why powerful weapons could have set spawns but not break early game, and it gave reason to use common but weaker weapons early game. There wasn't even a lot of managing needed for most guns with only some having low item health to firerate ratios.

[JustATextBox]

引用自 Kommissar Klose：

引用自 Signild：

And how exactly is that less roleplay breaking than thousands of weapons not having any malfunctions at all and just magically being able to work forever?

Really I'd much rather have something where its a % chance for the weapon to jam and require clearing, and an even smaller chance for a worse misfire or actual damage. Maintenance should mitigate this, but not eliminate it (i.e. it should be possible to sit down, maintain the item, and it still fail on the next shot).

The "constant downhill" and instant repair of FO3/NV isn't any better than nothing happening at all.

I agree that having a chance to jam would've been better. It also would've made more sense to find weapons that are pre-broken, like "10MM pistol missing X" and then finding X and replacing it.

Though I disagree entirely that having nothing is better than having FO3/NV's system. I liked the system, I thought it added to the RP aspect. Obviously you have to ignore the fact that you're "going into a game menu", because that's literally all the pipboy is. An info screen that they try to cover by making it something that goes on your arm and how you can somehow store upwards of 30 guns at a time.

There's a bit of suspension of disbelief, just like with UFOs, aliens, being able to select "perks" that you somehow instantly learn after killing a certain amount of enemies or picking locks etc. Being forced to repair items added something, imo, even if you didn't have to sit through a 5 minute animation watching your character repair it.

[Mno]

引用自 bugs like African country：

I get that armor health was usually too low but weapon condition was useful for balance.

No it wasn't. It was a tedious, pointless, dumb mechanic.

[†Cross†]

引用自 Zefar：

Weapons are actually quite reliable and even if they are hand made. I'm sure you all read stories about soldiers finding a rusty AK buried in the sand but just shakes the sand off and then start firing with it. Like nothing happened.

So when guns are actually made in Fallout universe I expect them to last.

Either make it very hard to actually destroy a gun or don't use the system at all.

Dead Island used a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ durability system and it was just so damn annoying. It added no immersion either. Oh my LEAD PIPE broke and now it doesn't do any damage, ARE YOU FOR REAL?

Dark Souls 2 durability also out of hand too and to the point where you had to keep extra weapon on you. It was annoying.

This right hear. Most people don't know how well a gun is made. Yes some people will say it's "unrealistic" but have you looked around the FO world? 97% of is it unrealistic.

[JustATextBox]

引用自 Zefar：

Dead Island used a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ durability system and it was just so damn annoying. It added no immersion either. Oh my LEAD PIPE broke and now it doesn't do any damage, ARE YOU FOR REAL?

Dark Souls 2 durability also out of hand too and to the point where you had to keep extra weapon on you. It was annoying.

Yeah, Dead Islands went way too far. However, Dark Souls 2 had it fine.. on consoles. The only reason I ever had problems with durability on DS2 is because on PC your weapons broke upwards of 2x as fast as on consoles.

[Tahl]

引用自 †Cross†：

引用自 Zefar：

Weapons are actually quite reliable and even if they are hand made. I'm sure you all read stories about soldiers finding a rusty AK buried in the sand but just shakes the sand off and then start firing with it. Like nothing happened.

So when guns are actually made in Fallout universe I expect them to last.

Either make it very hard to actually destroy a gun or don't use the system at all.

Dead Island used a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ durability system and it was just so damn annoying. It added no immersion either. Oh my LEAD PIPE broke and now it doesn't do any damage, ARE YOU FOR REAL?

Dark Souls 2 durability also out of hand too and to the point where you had to keep extra weapon on you. It was annoying.

This right hear. Most people don't know how well a gun is made. Yes some people will say it's "unrealistic" but have you looked around the FO world? 97% of is it unrealistic.

Dude... ♥♥♥♥ off. Zeta beings are totally real. I know some. Those green bastereds are some of my best friends.
http://www.vg247.com/2015/11/18/fallout-4-how-to-alien-blaster-pistol/
Pew pew.

[Balkoth]

As someone that likes hard-core-ness in games. I will say stuff like maintaining your power armor is kind-of annoying. Until you get the paladin armor, you're kind-of stuck having to go back to your main base after almost any mission to repair it. At least on survival.

[Wereman]

Zefar is right, if it's done properly it's good, but if the guns in FO4 lasted 4+ hours of use people would still complain that it was too slow.
On harder difficulties what makes a gun useless is running out of ammo, which happens a lot.

It was likely removed because you can now salvage guns for scrap to be used in base building. It's very useful for that one special piece of base equipment you need but you cant find screws/springs for example. If I have extra room, I make myself or my companion carry extra guns to store at base for this.

Edit: After reading some of the posts made during writing this "gun jam" was another topic.
Farcry 2 tried it, and that game is considered terrible, for many reasons, but one of them was the gun durability/jamming mechanic.

[Sixgun77]

引用自 Planeforger：

Bethesda removed durability for the same reasons they removed stats, karma and reputation.

They're too complex for Bethesda's core audience, and they'd take too much work to balance correctly.

Best answer yet!

[†Cross†]

引用自 Liandr¡ Vault111：

引用自 †Cross†：

This right hear. Most people don't know how well a gun is made. Yes some people will say it's "unrealistic" but have you looked around the FO world? 97% of is it unrealistic.

Dude... ♥♥♥♥ off. Zeta beings are totally real. I know some. Those green bastereds are some of my best friends.
http://www.vg247.com/2015/11/18/fallout-4-how-to-alien-blaster-pistol/
Pew pew.

Pew pew!

[desrtfox071]

引用自 Sixgun77：

引用自 Planeforger：

Bethesda removed durability for the same reasons they removed stats, karma and reputation.

They're too complex for Bethesda's core audience, and they'd take too much work to balance correctly.

Best answer yet!

Except it's just someone projecting.

[Kommissar K]

引用自 Signild：

Though I disagree entirely that having nothing is better than having FO3/NV's system. I liked the system, I thought it added to the RP aspect. Obviously you have to ignore the fact that you're "going into a game menu", because that's literally all the pipboy is. An info screen that they try to cover by making it something that goes on your arm and how you can somehow store upwards of 30 guns at a time.

I would say maintenance should at least require a tool interface in the game-world - like how FO4 has the weapon workshop benches.

Purely menu-based doesn't aid RP. If all it takes for you to be happy with RP is to hear a few hammer tinks on metal, not sure what to say.

[JustATextBox]

引用自 Kommissar Klose：

引用自 Signild：

Though I disagree entirely that having nothing is better than having FO3/NV's system. I liked the system, I thought it added to the RP aspect. Obviously you have to ignore the fact that you're "going into a game menu", because that's literally all the pipboy is. An info screen that they try to cover by making it something that goes on your arm and how you can somehow store upwards of 30 guns at a time.

I would say maintenance should at least require a tool interface in the game-world - like how FO4 has the weapon workshop benches.

Purely menu-based doesn't aid RP. If all it takes for you to be happy with RP is to hear a few hammer tinks on metal, not sure what to say.

It does more towards RP than not having it, that's all I'm saying. Removing (or reducing) elements that help RP, when there's already so few of them, really doesn't help the game out. Which is why people are calling it COD. I disagree with that, but it didn't feel how I expected it to, it doesn't feel like fallout.

[Elvi]

It wasn't "Too hard for casuals" it was quite tedious. I'd be up for actual repair skill and repair tools ala Oblivion, but the way it worked in previous two Fallouts, well, nah, nothing of value was lost.

[Tahl]

引用自 Sixgun77：

引用自 Planeforger：

Bethesda removed durability for the same reasons they removed stats, karma and reputation.

They're too complex for Bethesda's core audience, and they'd take too much work to balance correctly.

Best answer yet!

No that answer is polerised to get an emotional response by condescending people. Saying it like a statement also doesnt make it a fact. Thats not really the reality of things nor would he know if it was.

"Oh... cater to casuels." Boom anyone who argues is a casuel... Its false cause.

This:

引用自 Elvi：

It wasn't "Too hard for casuals" it was quite tedious. I'd be up for actual repair skill and repair tools ala Oblivion, but the way it worked in previous two Fallouts, well, nah, nothing of value was lost.

[Kommissar K]

引用自 Signild：

引用自 Kommissar Klose：

I would say maintenance should at least require a tool interface in the game-world - like how FO4 has the weapon workshop benches.

Purely menu-based doesn't aid RP. If all it takes for you to be happy with RP is to hear a few hammer tinks on metal, not sure what to say.

It does more towards RP than not having it, that's all I'm saying. Removing (or reducing) elements that help RP, when there's already so few of them, really doesn't help the game out. Which is why people are calling it COD. I disagree with that, but it didn't feel how I expected it to, it doesn't feel like fallout.

But heres the thing:

For you, it breaks RP that it doesn't break at all.

For me, it breaks RP that it breaks so quickly (at a games pace).

In your case, you have to be looking for it to actually notice it. For me, it s forced by the game.