definition of "automatic" :)

[travisdead1]

Not complaining. Just smiling.

The "Gunslinger" perk says it increases damage done by "non-automatic" pistols. But it increases the damage done by a 10mm, which is an automatic pistol.

A non-automatic firearm is called: muzzle loader, revolver, break-breach, pump action, bolt action, lever action. Any gun where you either load each shot manually, or advance the clip or cylinder manually.

An automatic weapon is geared so taht when you chamber and fire the first cartridge, the force of the explosive recoil chambers the next cartridge for you. So after loading the first bullet, you don't have to load the rest of the bullets in your clip. You just keep pulling the trigger. Or hold the trigger down to empty the clip. Any pistol where you slide back the receiver to load the first cartridge, then keep firing until the clip is empty...that is an automatic pistol.

The graphics in the game show the 10mm and some pipe pistols acting this way. They are autmoatics. According to the description of the perk, they shouldn't be benefitting from it.

But I'm glad they do. Just funny.

[Mansen]

They are obviously referring to any gun with full automatic firing mechanics, not semi.

Edit: This also means that if you mod your semi 10mm into an automatic, you're going to lose the bonus from the Semi trait, in favour of the one for full auto weapons.

[Ms O'Horné]

Originally posted by Mansen:

They are obviously referring to any gun with full automatic firing mechanics, not semi.

exactly, any gun where you can hold down the trigger and keep firing = automatic. everything else is non-automatic.

[Foxador]

Originally posted by travisdead1:

Not complaining. Just smiling.

The "Gunslinger" perk says it increases damage done by "non-automatic" pistols. But it increases the damage done by a 10mm, which is an automatic pistol.

Not all 10mm guns are automatic. If it has the automatic receiver then yes it's a automatic 10mm pistol. If it has anything else than it's semi-automatic.

A gun that is automatic means that when you press the trigger it will keep firing until you either release the trigger or you run out of ammo. A semi-automatic gun will fire one round and load the next but not fire again even if you're holding down the trigger, you have to release the trigger and press it again which in this game is the act of clicking

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by travisdead1:

Not complaining. Just smiling.

The "Gunslinger" perk says it increases damage done by "non-automatic" pistols. But it increases the damage done by a 10mm, which is an automatic pistol.

A non-automatic firearm is called: muzzle loader, revolver, break-breach, pump action, bolt action, lever action. Any gun where you either load each shot manually, or advance the clip or cylinder manually.

Uh, no. 'Automatic' means 'the gun keeps firing while the trigger is held down until ammo is depleted'. That's it.

A 10mm is a 'semi-automatic', just like a revolver (both remove the spent casing and move a fresh round to the firing postion with just single action on the part of the shooter - contrasted with a lever/bot/pump which require a second action by the shooter to reset the gun). But the difference is neither *is an automatic weapon*. They're both, along with bolt-actions, lever-actions, and break-breaches, *non-automatic weapons*.

The thing you should check is if the damage bonus is still there when you have one of the auto receivers slotted to make the 10mm a machine pistol.l

[lwpp808]

semi autos in real life are considered automatic loading firearms. but fallout 4 must have it under non auto category such as revolvers n bolts. guess automatic jus means full auto here

[Asker]

That's wrong Foxador and Incunabulum, you're talking about semi-automatic vs fully automatic. When we're talking about automatic vs non-automatic pistols then we're talking about the loading mechanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm#Fully_automatic_compared_to_semi-automatic

[Foxador]

Originally posted by kanalgrävare:

That's wrong Foxador and Incunabulum, you're talking about semi-automatic vs fully automatic. When we're talking about automatic vs non-automatic pistols then we're talking about the loading mechanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm#Fully_automatic_compared_to_semi-automatic

No actually you're getting your terminology wrong there Kanal. The skill in question is referring to fully automatic weapons in that you only get the bonus if it's a semi-auto pistol. Used in that case it's referring to the fact if the weapon is semi or fully automatic.

What you're talking, which has no bearing on this skill and is just confusing you, is something else entirely. Hell you should read what you linked, the first line even tells you that, "The usage of the term automatic varies according to context"

While a semi-auto pistol is considered to be a automatic pistol, it is not however a fully automatic weapon which the skill is referring to.

[travisdead1]

But my point was that if you aren't manually advancing the next cartridge, then it is being done automatically by the firing of the first cartridge. And "semi-automatic" IS automatic because you don't rotate a cyliner, ♥♥♥♥ the gun, pump the gun or shove a bullet and powder down the muzzle.

The only machine guns where you don't load the first shot yourself, are mounted on vehicles of some kind. Gunships, tanks. Even with the 30 calibers mounted of hum-vees, you draw back a bolt to load the first shell.

(lol! i said "c.o.c.k. the gun" and was marked as obscene and auto-edited)

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by kanalgrävare:

That's wrong Foxador and Incunabulum, you're talking about semi-automatic vs fully automatic. When we're talking about automatic vs non-automatic pistols then we're talking about the loading mechanism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_firearm#Fully_automatic_compared_to_semi-automatic

And anything that's not *fully automatic* is grouped together as *non-automatic*. because they're not automatic.

I don't know if some of you are from outside the US, but here the auto/non-auto distinction is a specific legal thing that restricts who can own what type of firearm.

Automatics are simply any firearm that can fire more than one round with a single trigger pull. Non-automatics are those that can only fire a single round with a trigger pull - no matter what else happens. You pull one trigger, you fire one round, its not an automatic weapon.

[oOFrostByteOo]

Well he's not wrong. In real life any auto loading pistol is considered "Automatic" even if you have to pull the trigger per-shot, unlike long guns, who have to be full auto capable to be called "Automatic". apparently Bethesda either didn't do their homeowrk or more likely just went with what 90% people would assume Automatic pistol meant. Which doesn't bother me as much as people saying "clip" when they mean "magazine".

[Mansen]

Bethesda obviously went with the logical approach that 90% of people know.

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by travisdead1:

But my point was that if you aren't manually advancing the next cartridge, then it is being done automatically by the firing of the first cartridge. And "semi-automatic" IS automatic because you don't rotate a cyliner, ♥♥♥♥ the gun, pump the gun or shove a bullet and powder down the muzzle.

The only machine guns where you don't load the first shot yourself, are mounted on vehicles of some kind. Gunships, tanks. Even with the 30 calibers mounted of hum-vees, you draw back a bolt to load the first shell.

You're not manually advancing the cartridge in a revolver either, the trigger pull does that. And a semi-auto pistol still racks the slide back and forth to extract, eject, and chamber the next round. But it doens't *automatically* fire it. That's why its a *semi-auto* and not an *automatic weapon*.

Automatic weapons are *only* those that can do burst or sustained fire with a single trigger pull.

Everything else is a non-automatic, no matter how its action functions.

[Foxador]

Originally posted by travisdead1:

But my point was that if you aren't manually advancing the next cartridge, then it is being done automatically by the firing of the first cartridge. And "semi-automatic" IS automatic because you don't rotate a cyliner, ♥♥♥♥ the gun, pump the gun or shove a bullet and powder down the muzzle.

The only machine guns where you don't load the first shot yourself, are mounted on vehicles of some kind. Gunships, tanks. Even with the 30 calibers mounted of hum-vees, you draw back a bolt to load the first shell.

The problem is that you have knowledge about guns =P You are correct in that it is a automatic pistol but the problem lies in that the skill is not talking about it, it's referring to fully automatic fire mode.

While it might seem poorly worded to someone that understands guns in real life, the fact of the matter is that most people don't have this knowledge and it really just comes down to if something is semi or fully automatic

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by oOFrostByteOo:

Well he's not wrong. In real life any auto loading pistol is considered "Automatic" even if you have to pull the trigger per-shot, unlike long guns, who have to be full auto capable to be called "Automatic". apparently Bethesda either didn't do their homeowrk or more likely just went with what 90% people would assume Automatic pistol meant. Which doesn't bother me as much as people saying "clip" when they mean "magazine".

That's not true at all. If that were the case, then you'd have the same legal restrictions on owning a semi-auto pistol that you do for owning an automatic rifle. And you don't. The licensing regime is the same for a S&W Model 500 as it is for a Glock 17.

An *autoloading* pistol is not considered an *automatic weapon*.

[Kommissar K]

Basically, in-game terms, it boils down to this:

If it only shoots once per click, its not considered automatic. If it shoots as long as you hold the mouse button down, it is automatic.

Yes, we all know you're smart and know your stuff OP, hooray for you. Maybe make a mod to alter the perk wording to be technically correct.