Rifleman vs commando

[Teo]

Which one is better? Generally speaking, not just the perks.

Automatic weapons or semi automatic weapons?
Please exclude the ammo discussion. I only care about recoil, accuracy, DPS and all the advantages.

[Солевой берсерк]

Take commando, buy overseer's guardian at vault 81, improve auto receiver and just enjoy rest of the game, cuz u'll not meet any troubles since

[Veya]

Semi automatic is better due to the way damage reduction works, since automatic weapons deal less damage per shot, that damage is reduced even further by enemies with high DR values.

The only issue I see with using semi-auto stuff is having to spam M1 instead of just holding.

[Tyrant]

1 semi/singleshot weapons by default do more damage then autofire weapons
2 Rifleman perk negates a portion of enemies armor AKA even more damage
3 perks are broken in balance...

[SIlverblade-T-E]

I have yet to test this though as I go rifleman as I'm a sneak/sniper type

I wonder how automatic weapons apply burning, freezing, woudning etc effects?

if it's PER BULLET, that's a hell of a lot of damage or effect

IMHO the best effect, after Wounding, is the "stagger" one
if the stagger chance was per bullet, with auto weapon, that would rock, as stopping things like Assualtron legendaries for even half a second is more important than raw damage

Note I have a legendary Woudning minigun, alas it's totally not my play style or I'd love to see what it could do with Commando and the Big gun perk, maxed, lol! :p
as it is, it MELTS most enemies

[Character Name]

Me too - Went Rifleman. With a good sniper rifle pumping out lots of damage, and the rifleman perk maxed out, it's quite fun to pick people off from a distance.

[Veya]

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

I have yet to test this though as I go rifleman as I'm a sneak/sniper type

I wonder how automatic weapons apply burning, freezing, woudning etc effects?

if it's PER BULLET, that's a hell of a lot of damage or effect

IMHO the best effect, after Wounding, is the "stagger" one
if the stagger chance was per bullet, with auto weapon, that would rock, as stopping things like Assualtron legendaries for even half a second is more important than raw damage

Note I have a legendary Woudning minigun, alas it's totally not my play style or I'd love to see what it could do with Commando and the Big gun perk, maxed, lol! :p
as it is, it MELTS most enemies

Let's go by parts:

Yes, it applies per bullet.

The damage from the special effect usually isn't affected by Commando, making the Perk commando itself pointless.

The Minigun isn't affected by Commando, only by Heavy Gunner.

For most special effect, it makes almost no difference, because the extra damage still have to go through DR on its own, unless it is Radiation, Explosive or Bleed.

Out of those 3 types, there are caveats and benefits from each of them:

Radiation is only good against human enemies, as almost everything else is immune to Rad damage, or is outright healed by them, as a counterpoint, the Radiation damage is pretty big, making radioactive automatic weapons great for shreding Raiders, since for some reason they never have even a stray Ghoul in their ranks.

Bleed have the caveat of Bleed in general: You have to wait for the damage to be dealt, which some people may not like.

Explosive is by far the best of the bunch, almost nothing resists Explosive damage, and the damage is instantaneous, and it actually benefits from ranks in Demolition Expert(in fact, taking Commando or Heavy Gunner for it is almost useless).

All those have the huge caveat of legendaries: It is random, you shouldn't try setting up a build based on items you may never see, I honestly haven't found a single Explosive gun in over 200 hours with the exception of the Spray n' Pray, an Explosive Minigun may as well be the greatest weapon in the game, but good luck finding one

[Za]

Rifleman is great for the armor penetration, it helps set it apart. Commando is excellent all around despite how enemy armor works because, well, ammo is nearly infinite for some guns. 10mm, Combat/Assault Rifle and Plasma/Fusion Cells are so easy to just buy that filling high level legendary enemies full of piles of bullets takes them down quick. Much less efficient than Rifleman though but again caps and ammo are so easy to get who cares?

Pistol perk is really the only "loser" damage perk because the disarm + range bonus is junk and even then really, it just goes to what you like. Nobody takes the Rad perk for the damage, or I would say its the worst. Regardless Im enjoying being a pistol character on my 2nd play, but it isnt as good for sure as my Commando/Rifleman character.


Though I would really prefer a return to Energy, Small, Big, and Explosive as exclusive categories.

[Teo]

Originally posted by Veya:

Originally posted by SIlverblade-T-E:

I have yet to test this though as I go rifleman as I'm a sneak/sniper type

I wonder how automatic weapons apply burning, freezing, woudning etc effects?

if it's PER BULLET, that's a hell of a lot of damage or effect

IMHO the best effect, after Wounding, is the "stagger" one
if the stagger chance was per bullet, with auto weapon, that would rock, as stopping things like Assualtron legendaries for even half a second is more important than raw damage

Note I have a legendary Woudning minigun, alas it's totally not my play style or I'd love to see what it could do with Commando and the Big gun perk, maxed, lol! :p
as it is, it MELTS most enemies

Let's go by parts:

Yes, it applies per bullet.

The damage from the special effect usually isn't affected by Commando, making the Perk commando itself pointless.

The Minigun isn't affected by Commando, only by Heavy Gunner.

For most special effect, it makes almost no difference, because the extra damage still have to go through DR on its own, unless it is Radiation, Explosive or Bleed.

Out of those 3 types, there are caveats and benefits from each of them:

Radiation is only good against human enemies, as almost everything else is immune to Rad damage, or is outright healed by them, as a counterpoint, the Radiation damage is pretty big, making radioactive automatic weapons great for shreding Raiders, since for some reason they never have even a stray Ghoul in their ranks.

Bleed have the caveat of Bleed in general: You have to wait for the damage to be dealt, which some people may not like.

Explosive is by far the best of the bunch, almost nothing resists Explosive damage, and the damage is instantaneous, and it actually benefits from ranks in Demolition Expert(in fact, taking Commando or Heavy Gunner for it is almost useless).

All those have the huge caveat of legendaries: It is random, you shouldn't try setting up a build based on items you may never see, I honestly haven't found a single Explosive gun in over 200 hours with the exception of the Spray n' Pray, an Explosive Minigun may as well be the greatest weapon in the game, but good luck finding one

I found an explosive combat rifle. I use it with full commando. It is 100damage per shot + the explosive damge.

[SIlverblade-T-E]

I have 2 or 3 explosive weapons
I carry a 10mm explosive pistol added auto fire mod, even though I have no ranks in Commando or Pistol, but I do have 2 in explosives and the explosive bobblehead

what I use it for, is to splatter ghouls and bugs at range :P
it is SICK!!! lol
with commando or pistol perks, the damage would be amazing

[Rytiko]

Semi-auto is much better if you like using Jet to get out of tight spots.

[ImHelping]

Rifle is more "use what I find laying around, without scrounger perks" friendly.

Automatic style is also cool, but even wiht the perks you are gonna blow through way more ammo.

The Assault Rifle is GREAT for a Commando run though. "But it's slightly weaker than a combat rifle!" It also has spectacular recoil control with just it's default parts, strong enough for the crosshair to shrink back to normal between bullets. Full auto combat rifle goes max wide crosshair and stays there.

EDIT: Also, the Submachine gun? A .38 pipe gun with an auto reciver is as strong per bullet as the Submachine gun. The SMG is basically "Would I like to wate .45 ammo?"

"But the spray n pray-" That's a legendary weapon. I have an explosive pipe gun. does that make pipe guns good? No? Then it doesn't make SMGs good guns either no matter how cool they look.

[ƒractured | Ʀaptor]

Both. There is no level cap so eventually you can master all the weapon types. Prioritize what you prefer first.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by ƒractured | Ʀaptor:

Both. There is no level cap so eventually you can master all the weapon types. Prioritize what you prefer first.

Levels slow considerably once you hit the 20s though, and it's more experience for every level.

So at least have some focus, instead of just assuming "Well I can just get around to it at level 70 because there is no level cap lol"

[ƒractured | Ʀaptor]

Originally posted by I'm Helping!:

Originally posted by ƒractured | Ʀaptor:

Both. There is no level cap so eventually you can master all the weapon types. Prioritize what you prefer first.

Levels slow considerably once you hit the 20s though, and it's more experience for every level.

So at least have some focus, instead of just assuming "Well I can just get around to it at level 70 because there is no level cap lol"

Hence prioritizing your preferences to be first. Do the other things last or in an order that's comfortable for you.

[ARmodder]

Semi-Auto is always the way to go, it's only real downside is that you don't get the rate of fire that automatics afford, though the only time this really matters is when your getting rushed by ghouls or other enemies, and you don't have the time to take well aimed shots.

Best weapons for going Rifleman are the Sniper Rifle (fully upgraded Hunting Rifle), and the combat rifle, I'll also include the Assault rifle since as long as you don't add an automatic reciever to it, it qualifies for the Rifleman perk.