[Spoilers] What is the morally correct thing to do with Lorenzo Cabot?

[00_01_02_03_04_05_06_07_08_09_10]

On one hand, his family has kept him in a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ little room for 400 years while draining his blood. So you could maybe justify freeing him.

On the other hand, Lorenzo Cabot doesn't want to forgive his family, and we have no idea what is going on in "his" mind. So you could maybe justify killing him.

What do you think is the morally correct thing to do and why?

[sdack]

Nguyên văn bởi Von Faustien:

he does nothing to act like rambo and even if you dismiss his families word random encounters prove they werent lying about him being a serial killer

I see encounters where some faction kills another. Hard to tell who started it. I did not ever see Lorenzo kill anyone, but only standing over bodies, saying he killed them.

My sole survivor killed 4000 people according to the stats. My sole survivor kills people all the time without a second thought and takes their loot. Is my sole survivor a serial killer?

My settlers kill attackers all the time. I even gave them the weapons, and they do a pretty good job. Are they serial killers?

According to trivia did Rambo kill 254 people so far, and getting more with every movie.

[sdack]

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

Did you read any of the pre war terminal entries in the asylum , in the cabbot house?

Did the entries scare you or why the question?

I can tell you what I did. I let him out and later did I kill him. All I know is that everybody had it out for him, but when I released him did he not attack me, but he seemed to understand the concept of gratitude at least. I then killed him out of selfish reasons, but not because I thought it was just.

For someone who was as much hated as he was did he seem rather friendly. He never attacked me nor harm me.

But this is besides the topic. The topic is on moral and before moral comes justice.

[=EGC= kansasterry]

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi Von Faustien:

he does nothing to act like rambo and even if you dismiss his families word random encounters prove they werent lying about him being a serial killer

I see encounters where some faction kills another. Hard to tell who started it. I did not ever see Lorenzo kill anyone, but only standing over bodies, saying he killed them.

My sole survivor killed 4000 people according to the stats. My sole survivor kills people all the time without a second thought and takes their loot. Is my sole survivor a serial killer?

My settlers kill attackers all the time. I even gave them the weapons, and they do a pretty good job. Are they serial killers?

According to trivia did Rambo kill 254 people so far, and getting more with every movie.

This argument only holds when its the bodies of raiders around him when he states he killed settlers (many unarmed when I searched the bodies) to study them it can not be argued that it was self defense and he confessed he killed them so there is no question of who did.

If you are you saying that in the 4000 ish estimate you are including unarmed , peaceful settlers or others that would not have attacked or tried to kill you first then yes your SS is a serial killer, if however in every instance it was someone trying to kill the SS then no they were self defense.

This is the issue those of us who did let him go and followed up on how he acted spoke with him and see innocent people who would not have attacked him first (unless he used his power to compel the attack like he did on the raiders) then he committed murder.

Comparisons to Rambo is not relevant as the situations are completely different.

Rambo was unlawfully jailed then attacked forcing him to defend himself.

They then repeatedly tried to kill him not arrest him over it through the movie.

Lorenzo was a lawfully sentenced criminal who was placed in the asylum by authorities who would have otherwise executed him for murders he committed to study his victims.

The family simply did not release him after the war because they knew he would go back to killing just as we who fell for his lies find out later.

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

Did you read any of the pre war terminal entries in the asylum , in the cabbot house?

Did the entries scare you or why the question?

I can tell you what I did. I let him out and later did I kill him. All I know is that everybody had it out for him, but when I released him did he not attack me, but he seemed to understand the concept of gratitude at least. I then killed him out of selfish reasons, but not because I thought it was just.

For someone who was as much hated as he was did he seem rather friendly. He never attacked me nor harm me.

But this is besides the topic. The topic is on moral and before moral comes justice.

The entries simply make it clearer about what was going on and help us see that Lorenzo is the one being deceptive.

[sdack]

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

many unarmed when I searched the bodies

So you believe they could never have tried to rob and kill him just with their hands?

All you have are speculations. Do you think it makes up for justice?

[=EGC= kansasterry]

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

many unarmed when I searched the bodies

So you believe they could never have tried to rob and kill him just with their hands?

All you have are speculations. Do you think it makes up for justice?

Again with the false call for justice. Should we call the asylums and demand all the criminals sentenced to them for violent crimes be released that they get the JUSTICE you seem to think they deserve for being placed there?

I linked the full wiki on lorenzo a few posts back I only quoted the part about the random encounters I suggest you read the entire thing.

It is not justice to punish people for enforcing a lawful sentence upon a convicted criminal simply because you believe the criminal over the jailers as if Lorenzo has no reason to lie to us.

[sdack]

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

It is not justice to punish people for enforcing a lawful sentence upon a convicted criminal simply because you believe the criminal over the jailers as if Lorenzo has no reason to lie to us.

You accuse Lorenzo of lying... Of course, he wants out and for someone held captive for 400 years would I speculate will they say anything to get out. It does not mean they are evil. I would say it makes them human.

Then what about the family? Holding someone captive for 400 years and draining their blood to live longer is what? Is it normal, is it insane, is it a bit like a cabal of elites injection dead babies *lol*, or is it just? How do you judge them?

[Bored Peon]

Nguyên văn bởi =EGC= kansasterry:

Did you read any of the pre war terminal entries in the asylum , in the cabbot house?

Obviously not.

See watch:

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

I did not ever see Lorenzo kill anyone, but only standing over bodies, saying he killed them.

Not only is he not reading any terminals he is not paying attention to what you say either. You have told him three times he killed people in the 1800s, yet here is is trying to argue he did not see the murders.

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Then what about the family? Holding someone captive for 400 years and draining their blood to live longer is what?

Here you go back to the start repeating the same thing form two pages ago.

Honestly I would stop arguing with him. He obviously can not be bothered to read the lore or your replies.

[sdack]

Nguyên văn bởi Bored Peon:

Honestly I would stop arguing with him. He obviously can not be bothered to read the lore or your replies.

Looks like the prosection has left the court room and Lorenzo's defense wins. Case dismissed.

[Bored Peon]

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi Bored Peon:

Honestly I would stop arguing with him. He obviously can not be bothered to read the lore or your replies.

Looks like the prosection has left the court room and Lorenzo's defense wins. Case dismissed.

You just do not pay attention at all.
He was sentenced to life without parole 400 years ago.
So your case never even made it to court.

[Anvos]

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi Bored Peon:

Honestly I would stop arguing with him. He obviously can not be bothered to read the lore or your replies.

Looks like the prosection has left the court room and Lorenzo's defense wins. Case dismissed.

No the argument that Lorenzo never killed anybody is just so absurd to be dismissed out of hand and requires Jack and the rest of the family to have falsified their own private logs, because they knew a stranger would one day be reading them and deciding Lorenzo's fate after the whole world had gone through an apocalypse.

Let alone we have the collaborating evidence of him murdering his family and then strangers after the fact, since we know how each choice ends up.

Further donating a couple extra vials of blood more than Jack needed for continued research is hardly torture. Let alone the very hypocrisy that he then goes on to offer said blood to the PC for helping him and what is clearly at a rate far higher than what his family took, given even with a partial dose left the 3 family members still have significant time left.

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

The morally correct thing to do is to kill Lorenzo regardless of who his family are, he is a clearly insane serial killer who ends up killing several sentient ghouls because he felt like examining them.

The pragmatic thing to do is to allow him to take his revenge and use the serum to further your own goals. Lorenzo is far from the only horror in the wasteland and an immortal lone wanderer might do more for the greater good than the death of one more monster.

Just remember; living forever means living with yourself forever.

[Yes, I have a Mic.]

Nguyên văn bởi sdack:

Nguyên văn bởi Bored Peon:

Honestly I would stop arguing with him. He obviously can not be bothered to read the lore or your replies.

Looks like the prosection has left the court room and Lorenzo's defense wins. Case dismissed.

- The logs show he was imprisoned for grotesque murders.
- When you attempt to convince him to not kill his own family he acts like its the most natural thing to do in the world.
- During random encounters you can find him having murdered ghouls. He openly acknowledges they did not attack him. He killed them to examine their condition and outright says he intends to do it again.

Now... I chose to free him and then let him kill his own family despite knowing exactly what he was.
I chose the promise of immortality and all the things I might be able to do with it over stopping a monster.
And more to the point; so did you. You made a pragmatic decision.
Have the dignity to accept that, stop lying to yourself and move on.

[DouglasGrave]

If we argue that Lorenzo's imprisonment was just based on it being conducted by the authorities of the now-dead pre-war civilization, he'd have to be judged innocent since he's already operating under the influence of an artifact from an earlier now-dead civilization that apparently didn't judge such actions as making someone guilty. The alternative is that with the collapse of such a civilization, just imprisonment can no longer be conducted.

Or you go for more general moral judgements, which is a whole different approach.

There's also the issue of the use of blood, which is clearly self-serving on the part of the other Cabot family members, since most of them can't claim to be taking the blood in order to stay alive so they can contain or cure Lorenzo.

[kharille]

Is there a time limit for that quest? What if you saw Lorenzo and did 180, walk out there and do all the other dlc?

[DouglasGrave]

Nguyên văn bởi kharille:

Is there a time limit for that quest? What if you saw Lorenzo and did 180, walk out there and do all the other dlc?

There's definitely a timer that runs at some point during the bit where you're potentially freeing Lorenzo, though I'd have to check back on exactly when it starts.

But "other DLC" is kind of weird to say; the Cabot quests aren't DLC.