why are Institute weapons so bad!

[ProxyJames]

i dont get it, the Institute has had 200 years to make a better version of the AER9 laser rifle so it should be better in every way! but end game its worse in every way minus a slight rate of fire bonus witch at the end of the game is overshadowed by raw damage. lore wise and just looking at there tech institute weapons should be better in every way but i think they got dumbed down because every synth has them but then again end game most of the gunners use laser weapons. and dotn even get me started on plasma, i had some mobs why have so much defence and energy defence plasma does very little damage (because the damage checks on both defence and energy defence) but witch switching to a laser or normal firearm it stil deals less damage than normal but more than the plasma (also plasma is semi worthless as full auto due to stupid high recoil so its best suited as a sniper or flame thrower and the flame thrower version is super strong due to stupid high DPS)

[ImHelping]

引用自 Arachnade：

Regardless of the reasons the synths and there weapons and armor need a serious buff.

Synth armor is actually some of the best armor in the game... when upgraded.

Everybody goes on about "Oh Combat armor is more balanced and Synth armor is better for energy".

But fully upgraded Heavy Synth armor has more ballistic protection than heavy combat armor too, yup. BETTER in every way than Heavy Combat armor.

The problem though, is that "Fully upgraded". See, every form of Synth armor needs rank 4 Armor talent to upgrade to the top.

Meanwhile, normal combat armor just needs two ranks to top out, and strudy only needs 3.

So people try out Synth armor, see they can't upgrade it. Then see that first set of Combat armor they have can be easilly upgraded, top that out, and forget about Synth armor entirely except for it seeming to have better energy scaling.

This goes for the helmets too. Though, I ignore the Synth helmets because I can't wear sunglasses with them. even the one that does not cover your eyes, disables eyewear last I played.

I prefer a BoS painted combat armor helmet anyways. All the rad protection of a gas mask, but I get to wear sunglassses and it offers actual protection, whoo.

[ProxyJames]

引用自 I'm Helping!：

引用自 ProxyJames：

no thats bad game design because everyhing in the game is pretty freaken weak even on the hardist diffculty setting, they needed to be unstopable boggie men, hell even the part were you are chasing the courser all you hear is gunfire and explostions and hes murdering EVERYTHING when you get to him a few love taps and he is down for the count,

Hey man, I'm not arguing for or against (even if bad lasers makes me sad).

I'm just saying the obvious reason WHY it was done, and no amount of hypocritical fanwank about the Institute will give a sensibleIn Universe reason.

It's also why Synth lasers are worth chump change. Whoa there, can't have you making any money off of the literally 30 lasers you've just collected in that last building!

The plot mission courser is sad in general. Only a fatman could have justified all that build up. Funny enough, all the other coursers I fought past him were much tougher (if still stuck with institute lasers).

Plot courser literally turned his back on me and started walking away, letting me just shoot him execution style in the back of the head with a railgun.

Random coursers turn invisible, and were able to survive for a short while against the almighty power of the PLASMA FLAMER.

Seriously, plasma flamer is just bonkers in how powerful it is... But also, when I last played, amaznigly garbage in VATS.

Like, it will destroy a legendary assaultron in 0.7 seconds. But if you VATS shoot with a plasma flamer, than a VATS critical shot will take off maybe half the health of a raider.

引用自 Arachnade：

Regardless of the reasons the synths and there weapons and armor need a serious buff.

Synth armor is actually some of the best armor in the game... when upgraded.

yeah the weapons have massive unblanced issues and problems and if they would have kept the old weapon/armor durabilty stuff you would pick up 30 of there guns are repaire them all into one lol and synth armor is the best at any upgrade levels as there damage defence is tyed with metal armors (witch has the highist damage defence) and tied with leather for energy (witch is highist energy) combat is synth BUT he has lower max defence than both metal and leather in the respictive catagorys

[ProxyJames]

引用自 I'm Helping!：

引用自 Arachnade：

Regardless of the reasons the synths and there weapons and armor need a serious buff.

Synth armor is actually some of the best armor in the game... when upgraded.

Everybody goes on about "Oh Combat armor is more balanced and Synth armor is better for energy".

But fully upgraded Heavy Synth armor has more ballistic protection than heavy combat armor too, yup. BETTER in every way than Heavy Combat armor.

The problem though, is that "Fully upgraded". See, every form of Synth armor needs rank 4 Armor talent to upgrade to the top.

Meanwhile, normal combat armor just needs two ranks to top out, and strudy only needs 3.

So people try out Synth armor, see they can't upgrade it. Then see that first set of Combat armor they have can be easilly upgraded, top that out, and forget about Synth armor entirely except for it seeming to have better energy scaling.

no i tested it a few times he has more defence in all catagorys than combat and is tyed for normal defence with metal and tyed with energy for leather thing is regardless of what weapons they are using everything minus mirelerks and deathclaws hit like weak babys im playing on surival with no trobles AT ALL there is no differnce but you have to grab the damage upgrades for full auto/heavy weapons first as it makes it a million times easer

[ImHelping]

Weapon durability is a crutch for padding, 99% of the time.

I miss a lot of the NV stuff, but I do like a lot of the Fo4 stuff too.

Really, carrying a backpack full of rifles to smash into eachother like a caveman whenever the durability passed the peak efficiency threshold didn't add anything of value.

The weapon balance in Fo4 could use some tuning (LOL SMG being only as strong per bullet as a pipe auto).

But weapon durability would not anything except "I have to pause combat to smash guns into eachother *picks up one of the literally dozen .44 revolvers he has in his backpack for the occasion*"

There are games where weapon durability adds quality to the game. Jagged Alliance 2 for example, you are running a rebellion for hire so need to worry about logistics for your army for hire and the local rebels.

But most of the time? It's just there as a speed bump, while also claiming it is GRITTY SURVIVAL REALISM. As you're diablo mans pauses momentarily from killing 17 thousand demons per minute, to blow gold on repairing his equipment.

For all it's obvious faults, Fo4 let me bring along weapons I liked just for fun, even when they were not optmial to my build, or even skilled for at all.

"Let's see, I don't need to bring ten+ assault rifles with me, so let's use that extra space to bring along a sawblade baseball bat even though I have 6 STR and no melee skills. Oh! let's bring a fully automatic combat shotgun!... yes I know I have no commando skill, it's still cool"

[ProxyJames]

引用自 I'm Helping!：

Weapon durability is a crutch for padding, 99% of the time.

I miss a lot of the NV stuff, but I do like a lot of the Fo4 stuff too.

Really, carrying a backpack full of rifles to smash into eachother like a caveman whenever the durability passed the peak efficiency threshold didn't add anything of value.

The weapon balance in Fo4 could use some tuning (LOL SMG being only as strong per bullet as a pipe auto).

But weapon durability would not anything except "I have to pause combat to smash guns into eachother *picks up one of the literally dozen .44 revolvers he has in his backpack for the occasion*"

well durability was part of the lore of the game as pretty much everything is 200 years old and falling apart and isnt too much of a problems if you level up your skill in repair as it slows down the rate of decay and how fast you fix stuff, the game also needs more guns and they need to under stand guns better, the combat rifle starts chambered in .45 witch is a pistole round and pretty small and then switchs to .308 witch is a big rifle round witch is nonsence (also you would change the barrel not the reciver to change the calibur) and there is no way the sniper can house the big as hell .50 rounds UNLESS its its .50 AE not .50 BMG in witch case witching to .50 AE would reduce the range alot and possable the power of the weapon and it would also use a much smaller mag. furthermore the .38 round is actully a really good round so i dont know why its so weak, they needed to put more guns into this game like a real .50 dmg anit meteral rifle like in NV a real 5.56 rifle (and more 5.56 ammo for that matter) something in 7.62 maybe like a AK, shotguns dont work right, the pellets dont deal there down damage its just a cone of damage the damage falloff is freaken stupid they should have added spread and bullet drop for natural damage fall off. but too see the amount of work that when into 3 and NV and like 1/4 that amount of work in 4 is sad...also the timmy gun does do more damage than the .38 full auto pipe and i stoped using non auto weapons as with noon auto you deal like 30-50% more damage per bullet but full autos kill so much much faster

[ImHelping]

Line breaks are your friend.

Please have mercy on the eyes of others, and break up your walls of text.

Also "IT'S PART OF THE LORE!" is a terrible reason. It was never an issue in the old fallout games for weapons and armor, and pershable FOOD is still perfectly intact despite the fact that box of blamco mac and cheese should have crumbled to dust by now in Fallout 3, NV, and Fo4 anyways.

If your only, ONLY, argument is "BUT LORE/REALISM", then you don't have any real backing for a game design discussion. Especially when it is selectily applie both in game, and in the people swingint the word "immersion" like a blunt object to get their way.

Seriously, if somebody asks you "What is the primary difference in gameplay removing durability has except 'I don't have to stop and repair it from my backpack full of a dozen plasma rifles'", and your answer is "IT FITS THE SETTING!"... You're not debating the subject, you are running across the street, kicking open the door to somebody's house, and screaming your opinions at confused strangers while the people asking legitimate questions wonder where you are going.

Lore and immersion can be good things, and going too far from them is always jarring. But that's for overall tone and setting. In the end, it's still a game.

And if your entire justification for a mechanic is cherry picking your "But it makes realistic sense!" applications only to the stuff you personally want... that's not good for a game, no matter how realistic or unrealistic that game may be.

I've seen worse usages of "But immersion!", I admit. I've seen people complain about "realism" and "it ruins roleplay" over weapon prices in Killing Floor 2 meaning you can just check the scoreboard to know how much money to (literally) throw at a teammate so they can afford a new gun... A game where you fight a 100 year old cyborg nazi and then burry his corpse with neon glowing wads of cash.

While playing as a thawed out cyrogenically frozen world war 2 soldier, teamed up with a DJ, and buying a microwave gun from an airdropped 3d printer.

But no, cherry picking "it ruins Immersion" on the stuff they don't like.

[ProxyJames]

引用自 I'm Helping!：

Line breaks are your friend.

Please have mercy on the eyes of others, and break up your walls of text.

Also "IT'S PART OF THE LORE!" is a terrible reason. It was never an issue in the old fallout games for weapons and armor, and pershable FOOD is still perfectly intact despite the fact that box of blamco mac and cheese should have crumbled to dust by now in Fallout 3, NV, and Fo4 anyways.

If your only, ONLY, argument is "BUT LORE/REALISM", then you don't have any real backing for a game design discussion. Especially when it is selectily applie both in game, and in the people swingint the word "immersion" like a blunt object to get their way.

Seriously, if somebody asks you "What is the primary difference gameplay does removing durability have except 'I don't have to stop and repair it from my backpack full of a dozen plasma rifles'", and your answer is "IT FITS THE SETTING!"... You're not debating the subject, you are running across the street, kicking open the door to somebody's house, and screaming your opinions at confused strangers while the people asking legitimate questions wonder where you are going.

Lore and immersion can be good things, and going too far from them is always jarring. But that's for overall tone and setting. In the end, it's still a game.

And if your entire justification for a mechanic is cherry picking your "But it makes realistic sense!" applications only to the stuff you personally want... that's not good for a game, no matter how realistic or unrealistic that game may be.

I've seen worse usages of "But immersion!", I admit. I've seen people complain about "realism" and "it ruins roleplay" over weapon prices in Killing Floor 2... A game where you fight a 100 year old cyborg nazi and then burry his corpse with neon glowing wads of cash.

no its a part of the lore that the food stuffs like the suger bombs, the insta mash was that they were made to last forever in case of nukes witch they did, all the games payed super close attention to this and science for instance in the other fallouts you couldnt ignite oil on the floor or gas in a room with bullets (will the muzzle flash from a gun yes) BUT lasters and explostions could, they even got the recoil of the guns down in the past 2 games but this game stoped giving a ♥♥♥♥ on how things work or the lore, the last 5 games might not as well even happend when it comes to this game

[ThatHexWolf]

They should do more damage. It takes more energy to get a blue laser than a red one. For all intents and purposes the Institute weapons should do much more damage than typical laser weapons.

[Von Faustien]

fun fact tech advancment isnt a stright line diffrent field advance at diffrent rates the institute unlike the prewar goverment and enclave arent focused on warfare so it makes sense that weapons would lag a bit compared to other factions with high tech and a more agressive outlook.
after all they have no intrest in takeing the surface, have a base that beyond the reach of almost everyone and existing waepons they can field do the job why waste time makeing a weapon you dont need.


also the red laser has more damage than a blue laser thing is idiotic visible light isnt the part of the spectrum that goings to do damage to people so what color you see has no bearing on what kind of impact your getting. and spectrum is only part of whats going to do damage after all microwave fall under visible light as does inferred and guess what both can do far more damage to people.

odds are the color you see is just built in as a kind of tracer well say an ultravilot laser or inferred laser fires behind it and does the real damage. because useing visable light for a energy weapon is stupid because unless the aim is to blind people your not going to get anywhere.

[ProxyJames]

引用自 jrr101：

fun fact tech advancment isnt a stright line diffrent field advance at diffrent rates the institute unlike the prewar goverment and enclave arent focused on warfare so it makes sense that weapons would lag a bit compared to other factions with high tech and a more agressive outlook.
after all they have no intrest in takeing the surface, have a base that beyond the reach of almost everyone and existing waepons they can field do the job why waste time makeing a weapon you dont need.


also the red laser has more damage than a blue laser thing is idiotic visible light isnt the part of the spectrum that goings to do damage to people so what color you see has no bearing on what kind of impact your getting. and spectrum is only part of whats going to do damage after all microwave fall under visible light as does inferred and guess what both can do far more damage to people.

odds are the color you see is just built in as a kind of tracer well say an ultravilot laser or inferred laser fires behind it and does the real damage. because useing visable light for a energy weapon is stupid because unless the aim is to blind people your not going to get anywhere.

shows what you know about science! blue light is at a much higher frequency and wavelength than red light so when fouced into a laser it will be much MUCH hotter hence more damage, this is also very true for ultraviolet light, thats what gives you sunburns at the beach so if fouced into a laser it will be able to burn though pretty much anything thats why they call it a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ L.A.S.E.R., it stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation!

[ProxyJames]

引用自 Aine：

They should do more damage. It takes more energy to get a blue laser than a red one. For all intents and purposes the Institute weapons should do much more damage than typical laser weapons.

well grats your the one smart persion that knows how light works that has posted on this thread. everyone else is really dumb and doesnt even know what the word laser stands for.

[Deku Scrub]

The Institute plays the numbers game.
Arm a bunch of Synths with cheap, easy to manufacture fire-power and overwehlm the enemy with sheer numbers.
Hence why Kellogg could take out 5 of them by himself, with no plot armor.

[Von Faustien]

引用自 ProxyJames：

引用自 jrr101：

fun fact tech advancment isnt a stright line diffrent field advance at diffrent rates the institute unlike the prewar goverment and enclave arent focused on warfare so it makes sense that weapons would lag a bit compared to other factions with high tech and a more agressive outlook.
after all they have no intrest in takeing the surface, have a base that beyond the reach of almost everyone and existing waepons they can field do the job why waste time makeing a weapon you dont need.


also the red laser has more damage than a blue laser thing is idiotic visible light isnt the part of the spectrum that goings to do damage to people so what color you see has no bearing on what kind of impact your getting. and spectrum is only part of whats going to do damage after all microwave fall under visible light as does inferred and guess what both can do far more damage to people.

odds are the color you see is just built in as a kind of tracer well say an ultravilot laser or inferred laser fires behind it and does the real damage. because useing visable light for a energy weapon is stupid because unless the aim is to blind people your not going to get anywhere.

shows what you know about science! blue light is at a much higher frequency and wavelength than red light so when fouced into a laser it will be much MUCH hotter hence more damage, this is also very true for ultraviolet light, thats what gives you sunburns at the beach so if fouced into a laser it will be able to burn though pretty much anything thats why they call it a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ L.A.S.E.R., it stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation!

point



your head


visible light of any wave length is not what your going to use for a weponized laser. the color your seeing is due to the science fiction idea that you need need to see the beam

a real laser is not useing red or blue ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ light to do damage its useing ultravilot or infered because as i ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stated unless your trying to blind the guy the thermal transfer of a inferred laser or the damage from inoizing radiation that you get in the UV and above ranges is going to work a ♥♥♥♥ of a lot better moron.

[ProxyJames]

引用自 Mister Mystery：

The Institute plays the numbers game.
Arm a bunch of Synths with cheap, easy to manufacture fire-power and overwehlm the enemy with sheer numbers.
Hence why Kellogg could take out 5 of them by himself, with no plot armor.

thoes were mark 1s and they have nothing to do with there weapons

[ProxyJames]

引用自 jrr101：

引用自 ProxyJames：

shows what you know about science! blue light is at a much higher frequency and wavelength than red light so when fouced into a laser it will be much MUCH hotter hence more damage, this is also very true for ultraviolet light, thats what gives you sunburns at the beach so if fouced into a laser it will be able to burn though pretty much anything thats why they call it a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ L.A.S.E.R., it stands for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation!

point



your head


visible light of any wave length is not what your going to use for a weponized laser. the color your seeing is due to the science fiction idea that you need need to see the beam

a real laser is not useing red or blue ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ light to do damage its useing ultravilot or infered because as i ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ stated unless your trying to blind the guy the thermal transfer of a inferred laser or the damage from inoizing radiation that you get in the UV and above ranges is going to work a ♥♥♥♥ of a lot better moron.

you cant see ultravailot light and if it was you wouldnt use plastic for the casing otherwise you would melt the damn gun after firing it ONCE and currently we dont have the power to make a UV laser that. there are lasers we use to burn thing and normaly they use infrared red or red light, the color of the laser determs its strong it is as they all run off of differnt wavelengths also dispite everyone saying lasers have no mass that also isnt true light has mass like everything else just not enough to make it tangable to us so you got out scienced AGAIN but really this is like 10th grade stuff everyone that payed attention learned that all light of differnt colors has its own wavelength and frequency so differnt color light wen amplified and fouced into a beam well have a differnt temperature (as it does unfouced as well) infrared being the lowist (known as we cant see below that) and ultravolit being the highist (known) WWWWOOOO SCIENCE ♥♥♥♥♥!