Saw blade launcher impossible to obtain?

[Star Core]

Was curious about that improv weapon junk that came for free with the "next gen" (3 gens ago more like?) patch... done quest, Suggs looking lively and happy to trade. However my darling dark dealer Suggs is NOT EVER selling any saw blade launcher, the only weapon I haven't even gotten to see at all. Wat do??

Cheesed the game and rerolled his stock way over 30 times, all other special crap is for sale but maaaaan the one weapon I'd be hyped to goof off with is 100% MIA no matter how many of all the others are in stock! Thought the biggest wiki would maybe have the ID at least, already gotta console the fecal matter outta like a bazillion horribugged quests in the game so no stranger to typing in fixes (no I don't even call it cheats, BGS coders can't make their games work proper if their lives depended on it) buuut yeppers you guessed it; no ID to be found anywhere. So if anyone got that ID for me... you'd be like a glorious angel type thing for sharing, would totally stroke your wings and kiss your halo if you're into that. If you're not into that pretty please post the ID anyway and I promise not to do anything questionable to your non human features.

[DouglasGrave]

What you will find useful for this (and similar cases) is the help command, which will readily give you the ID for most basic items like this. For example:

help "saw blade" 4 WEAP

This will give you a list of general entries (category 4), that are weapons (the WEAP part) with with the term "saw blade" in their name (don't forget to wrap the search term in those quote marks when there's a space in it).

You can perform a similar search for AMMO (the four-letter code for ammunition), or leave off the four-letter code to search without restricting it to a particular object type.

[DouglasGrave]

After a quick look in the Creation Kit, the situation with the saw blade launcher is definitely weird. It's left out of Suggs' normal list in favour of being in the inventory of an invisible vendor chest underground, for some reason it's also got a global value to control the chance of it appearing, and the weapon name has "FIX" at the end, suggesting there was already some hacking about with getting it to work.

I acquired one saw blade launcher somewhere during the quest, but I haven't seen it turn up randomly in Suggs' vendor inventory, and the Creation Kit information gives me reason to think it won't normally show up, unless there's some particular way of finishing the quest that changes things.

[Star Core]

Total lifesaver! Or maybe I wouldn't actually die but san point saver at least... and insanity can get people killed, if anything mine is getting a lot of npcs killed. Anyhoo thanks a ton, majorly helpful universal tip there and I'm now the lucky illegitimate owner of a saw blade launcher at last! ^_^ Would buy you a deluxe angel wing feather brush but can't find any store that sells them, maybe pet shops have something close enough...

Feels like *maybe* I did pick one up at some point during the quest as well but it's no longer in my inventory, I'm usually careful not to sell or scrap anything interesting but might have messed up this one fateful time... Still typical BGS to bork something like this and then not even bother fixing it, really wish they'd bother caring just a little bit more about the quality of their games even after they take our money...

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Star Core:

Still typical BGS to bork something like this and then not even bother fixing it, really wish they'd bother caring just a little bit more about the quality of their games even after they take our money...

Tellingly, the name used for the makeshift weapons pack files is "ccSBJFO4003-Grenade". I'm guessing that the original concept for this Creation Kit item was for just the grenades/grenade launchers.

[The Inept European]

Never had a problem getting the saw blade launcher off Suggs. He usually has a new one on every restock.

[random_frugality]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

After a quick look in the Creation Kit, the situation with the saw blade launcher is definitely weird. It's left out of Suggs' normal list in favour of being in the inventory of an invisible vendor chest underground,

Oh, I'm wondering now if I've been seeing this chest trying to show up. The first time I got to Suggs' place there was a part of the ground that was bumping. There was a thumping sound and a small part of the ground was looking as if it was being hit from below and made to bulge up into the street. I tried every way I could think of to get something to happen with that thumping bit of landscape, but I was never able to interact with it. So now I'm wondering if that was the underground chest you're mentioning here rying to show up.

The thumping piece of ground doesn't happen every time I go to Suggs' place, but it happens maybe a third of the time or half the time.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

for some reason it's also got a global value to control the chance of it appearing, and the weapon name has "FIX" at the end, suggesting there was already some hacking about with getting it to work. ....

I'm thinking of going there as soon as I can and doing a save and then using tcl to get underground with that thumping piece of real estate and see if I can tell what's going on there. I doubt if I'll do anything other than revert to that save after I look at it because I suspect that having that weapon will not be worth the risk of wrecking the game. But maybe I'll satisfy my curiosity.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by random_frugality:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

After a quick look in the Creation Kit, the situation with the saw blade launcher is definitely weird. It's left out of Suggs' normal list in favour of being in the inventory of an invisible vendor chest underground,

Oh, I'm wondering now if I've been seeing this chest trying to show up. The first time I got to Suggs' place there was a part of the ground that was bumping. There was a thumping sound and a small part of the ground was looking as if it was being hit from below and made to bulge up into the street. I tried every way I could think of to get something to happen with that thumping bit of landscape, but I was never able to interact with it. So now I'm wondering if that was the underground chest you're mentioning here rying to show up.

The thumping piece of ground doesn't happen every time I go to Suggs' place, but it happens maybe a third of the time or half the time.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

for some reason it's also got a global value to control the chance of it appearing, and the weapon name has "FIX" at the end, suggesting there was already some hacking about with getting it to work. ....

I'm thinking of going there as soon as I can and doing a save and then using tcl to get underground with that thumping piece of real estate and see if I can tell what's going on there. I doubt if I'll do anything other than revert to that save after I look at it because I suspect that having that weapon will not be worth the risk of wrecking the game. But maybe I'll satisfy my curiosity.

The container in the Creation Kit was displayed as a textureless and transparent coloured block, which is common for something that doesn't have a regular physical form (only being observable in the Creation Kit for design purposes). It shouldn't be whatever you saw/heard bouncing underground.

[random_frugality]

Originally posted by random_frugality:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

After a quick look in the Creation Kit, the situation with the saw blade launcher is definitely weird. It's left out of Suggs' normal list in favour of being in the inventory of an invisible vendor chest underground,

Oh, I'm wondering now if I've been seeing this chest trying to show up. The first time I got to Suggs' place there was a part of the ground that was bumping. There was a thumping sound and a small part of the ground was looking as if it was being hit from below and made to bulge up into the street. I tried every way I could think of to get something to happen with that thumping bit of landscape, but I was never able to interact with it. So now I'm wondering if that was the underground chest you're mentioning here rying to show up.

The thumping piece of ground doesn't happen every time I go to Suggs' place, but it happens maybe a third of the time or half the time.

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

for some reason it's also got a global value to control the chance of it appearing, and the weapon name has "FIX" at the end, suggesting there was already some hacking about with getting it to work. ....

I'm thinking of going there as soon as I can and doing a save and then using tcl to get underground with that thumping piece of real estate and see if I can tell what's going on there. I doubt if I'll do anything other than revert to that save after I look at it because I suspect that having that weapon will not be worth the risk of wrecking the game. But maybe I'll satisfy my curiosity.

So I went to Suggs' and there was no bumping from underground. I did a manual save and then used tcl anyway and looked, and found nothing. I came back up, reloaded the previous save and figured I'd see if Suggs had any 40 mm ammo. He did. I looked and saw that he had saw blades too, and then I saw that he had a compensated saw blade launcher! I'm wondering if the times I saw the thumping were the times when the saw blade launcher was not being placed in the area correctly. I don't know that, of course.

I also don't know that I'll ever use the compensated saw blade launcher but I bought it. I think it's one of those weapons that some people like to play with for the fun of it just because it has a result in a fight that looks cool to them. I usually avoid that kind of stuff in preference to weapons that deliver a lot of damage, but I have well over 960,000 caps and also sold some fusion cells to Suggs so I cleaned him out of caps as usual. At least the saw blade launcher delivers a decent amount of damage.

[random_frugality]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

The container in the Creation Kit was displayed as a textureless and transparent coloured block, which is common for something that doesn't have a regular physical form (only being observable in the Creation Kit for design purposes). It shouldn't be whatever you saw/heard bouncing underground.

Oh, well what I saw was the texture of the ground, or pile of crap, looking like it was pumping up and down in rhythm to the thumping noise, which came from that piece of ground. So maybe if I'd gone under there via tcl when it was thumping I wouldn't have been able to see it anyway.

When I get time I'm going to have to read up on that compensated saw blade launcher to see if it's anything I can make decent use of. Anyway I've made a contribution to this thread and found that it is possible to get that thing off Suggs, even if it might be a once in a million chance. YMMV HTH

[The Inept European]

First of all vendor sale items are never in their personal inventory. They are always in a chest

In Suggs case certain items are only available for sale after quest completion. On quest completion the extra items are script-injected into a leveled list for his vendor chest.

Also all his items are subject to normal modcoll variation, so you will see variant types show up ("compensated" etc). However the author screwed up the modcolls or didn't understand them. As a result you can get any mod variant at level 1 (making this NG crap even more unbalanced) and you can get variants that don't render properly and look (and act) like pipe rifles.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by The Inept European:

First of all vendor sale items are never in their personal inventory. They are always in a chest

In Suggs case certain items are only available for sale after quest completion. On quest completion the extra items are script-injected into a leveled list for his vendor chest.

Also all his items are subject to normal modcoll variation, so you will see variant types show up ("compensated" etc). However the author screwed up the modcolls or didn't understand them. As a result you can get any mod variant at level 1 (making this NG crap even more unbalanced) and you can get variants that don't render properly and look (and act) like pipe rifles.

I have also seen a result where he never seems to get any additional sawblade launchers beyond the very first one, even upon many repeated reloads to barter with a fresh inventory. I'm wondering if that's just a script fallure or if there's some other criteria involved.