Settlement attacks and Game Balance

[azxcvbnm321]

The problem people aren't considering is that having enemies spawn outside of the build area would make it too difficult for the enemy to do any damage at all and render the attacks pointless. I don't like enemies spawning in the middle of the settlement either, but a compromise solution has to be found in order to give the attackers a chance of doing some damage. People are smarter than the AI when it comes to innovative and creative design of defenses. There are defenses that are impossible, literally impossible (because they are built in the air without ladders, etc.) to attack successfully. Other defenses have mazes guarded by turrets and heavily fortified chokepoints. Even a human couldn't get pass those defenses without the use of sneaking and sniping from range, something the AI can't do.

To give a fair chance, I think Bethesda or the players have to come up with a way that the current AI can succeed against any defense. I propose that the buildable walls be destructible so that any explosion will knock the wall down, or at least explosions from missiles and fat man nukes. That way the AI can use missiles to knock down a portion of the wall and try to attack through there.

If Bethesda does this, then I know people will complain again (what else is new). They'll complain that building walls is useless if they can be destroyed or that the turrets and guards should target the enemies with missile launchers first, something hard to put into practice, since missile launchers have greater range anyway. In the end, what is currently happening is just a simplification of what would happen under my proposal. Instead of constantly having to rebuild walls after every attack, the current method saves the player the trouble of doing that at the cost of having enemies spawn in the buildable area if the player arrives late to the defense. I think that's probably the easiest and simplest solution.

A lot of players only consider the game from their point of view, not from a view of game balance. If the attacks are going to be meaningful, they need some way of doing damage to the buildable area, otherwise it's pointless to have them at all. I've heard no solutions to the game balance dilemma so far, only proposals that would make it far too easy to defend a settlement. I think it's up to the player base to come up with viable solutions. It's easy to complain, harder to come up with something that'll work.

[Jeroen]

Best solution to time wasted on settlement repair:
http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4180/?
Problem solved.

[azxcvbnm321]

So your solution is to not have attacks at all. Very innovative.

[Jeroen]

Yes. I am one of those players that consider the game from my point of view, which is that the whole settlement stuff should've been left out.

[NicShadow_IT]

Bah, I just had my worst attack ever.
Worst cause I had 0 advices about it.
Travelling around, I decide to visit the Slog, and once there...
All destroyed.
I have to say that I check regularly Stats just in case I miss an attack warning, and before starting to fast travel to the Slog, it was all ok. 80% happines, no power, bed, defences, etc "warnings".
Simply I fast travelled there and I had to restore everything, with happines falling from 80 to 76, 0 water, 0 food, 0 defences... And 0 attackers around.

[Aries the Grim Fool]

Seeing as to how the game handles damage it would be devastating to include some of the features you ask:
.
On a given attack you attend it's well possible for any assailant to actually damage those 'invincible' spots you say... Doesn't matter if the turret is up in the sky, if they can shoot at it,
they will. And a lousy pipegun beats the living daylights out of them.
On a given attack you don't attend it's just a roll of the die, DEF vs ATT and then a random number poops out win/loss and the damages. How much fun would it be to miss one and then find your entire settlement as a smoking pile of ash. No biggie on a small settlement, but just imagine something with the budget of Spectacle Island will all of a sudden empty your entire supply lines to repair (and yup, the game autorepairs whether you want it or not)

But isn't the fact that AI already has it's way of circumventing defence by spawning inside/synth infiltration (TBH I'd call it poor defence if everything is looking outward), the reason you specifically ask for a different way is because you don't like it's current implementation?

You want destructible walls so they can get inside, while they already can. You say a base's defences are impenetrable, when it already is the opposite. So as far seeing it from a game perspective, I think you're actually only seeing it from your own perspective

[Demonic Goddess]

But how does this address the fact that settlements always need help defending/always need you to take care of enemies that are harassing them when you have a high enough defense rating to fully protect everyone in the settlement and then some?

I will literally fast travel to a settlement that needs help, and then I get to watch as my defenses (and sometimes the settlers themselves, who apparently cant do this on their own) wipe the floor with the attackers. But if you fail to go there and watch as the attackers get demolished, guess what? Your settlement gets damaged and you need to either fix the stuff yourself, or wait for it to repair automatically...somehow.

It just feels like it doesn't matter how heavily fortified your settlements are cause your settlements are defenseless unless you babysit them all the time.

[a.thomas]

A problem with the OP's suggestion is that the player can't damage the walls of an attacker's base, either. To balance that, Bethesda woiuld have to include structuraal damage throughout the game.

[Mr Majestic]

When the communities start off they're vulnerable.

When I spend TEN OF HOURS building them up, erecting walls, installing laser turrets, handing out armour and weapons it's because I WANT THEM TO SURVIVE.

What exactly is wrong with the settlements easily fending off attacks from outside of the base? Unless it's a family of mutant moles who lost their way... I don't care that the settlements wouldn't be attacked, apart from the occasional dumb monster or ghoul that strayed too close, because most would know to stay away from the FORTRESS WITH MISSILE LAUNCHERS.

Attack my poorly defended settlements, no worries. But give me peace and serenity in my fortress towns because quite frankly, I've earnt it.

[azxcvbnm321]

The player doesn't need to damage enemy bases because he has other ways of penetrating defenses not available to the AI. He can use stealth and hit from range, and most of all, a human brain which can adapt to many situations and find creative solutions.

As for what Majestic said, it's all about risk/reward for the attacker. If a base was very resource rich (producing a lot of water and food), but relatively not as well defended, then large groups of enemies may gather just to hit the base. I think a solution would be that if Defenses > food + water, then there would never be attacks since it wouldn't be worth it. However if defenses were less, then you'd see attacks. That would allow people who don't want to be attacked to build a lot of defenses, but those who want to be attacked can try out their settlement designs and see how they work out with destructible walls and enemies armed with missile launchers at a minimum.

[Råb!d]

Have settlement attacks.

Install Settlement Raiding Mod - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2995/?


Have a much better balanced, difficult game.

Install Arbitration - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2037/?
Install Rebalancer - http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/2339/?

Make the game much more fun!!

[leadmecca]

What most of us I think really want (expected) was some sort of tower defense mini game (not random attacks that get predetermined) but attacks that felt like tower defense attacks. Like, you get a notification that you can set every 10 or 30 or 60 or how ever minutes to random attacks and you can choose to just ignore it and no attacks will occur. Because really, there is zero point to an attack you are not available for.

We got sold on dozens of enemy troops from melee users to mid-long range gun users to flood in from pre positioned spawn points through death funnels where we would utilize turrets and traps. Right now, you just need maybe 1 turret (maybe 2 at most) Traps are useless.

The game has to have 2-4 red spawn zones we can see in build mode and build around at each settlement. It has to spawn a multitude of enemies that are sponge boosted to take a good amount of damage based on your level and the amount of damage your defenses can unleash. Then there has to be a reward, no risk is required, we are spending our time defending. If there is no path into the base they all spawn inside, let our settlers die as defense, and then put everything back to normal, have it on a timer for self repair and/or let us self repair. On the last unit (maybe a boss unit) have a super rare specialty item and/or super rare specialty ingredients drop. Or pieces to create special items, or a special currency to buy things at some special vendor.

It just isn't a fun addition and is really worth nothing if we just toss heavys and missiles to 100+ defense everywhere. I don't care about my settlers, I care about them only slightly more then Shaun and I dont care about Shaun one damn bit.

It only needs red spawn points in build view, pathable A.I. that will appear in your base should no path be found, a invitation to port to your settlement with a 3 min window to prepare, and buffed attackers, just balanced attackers to actually make a decent TD mini game. Heck, even an option to have your settlement broadcast a challange and get attacked in like 5 mins, flip the switch, attack incoming (or flip the switch, option screen to select level of attack, waves, ect) Boom, done deal, fun little side game. Get traps useful to lay dots.

[Råb!d]

Originally posted by leadmecca:

What most of us I think really want (expected) was some sort of tower defense mini game (not random attacks that get predetermined) but attacks that felt like tower defense attacks. Like, you get a notification that you can set every 10 or 30 or 60 or how ever minutes to random attacks and you can choose to just ignore it and no attacks will occur. Because really, there is zero point to an attack you are not available for.

We got sold on dozens of enemy troops from melee users to mid-long range gun users to flood in from pre positioned spawn points through death funnels where we would utilize turrets and traps. Right now, you just need maybe 1 turret (maybe 2 at most) Traps are useless.

The game has to have 2-4 red spawn zones we can see in build mode and build around at each settlement. It has to spawn a multitude of enemies that are sponge boosted to take a good amount of damage based on your level and the amount of damage your defenses can unleash. Then there has to be a reward, no risk is required, we are spending our time defending. If there is no path into the base they all spawn inside, let our settlers die as defense, and then put everything back to normal, have it on a timer for self repair and/or let us self repair. On the last unit (maybe a boss unit) have a super rare specialty item and/or super rare specialty ingredients drop. Or pieces to create special items, or a special currency to buy things at some special vendor.

It just isn't a fun addition and is really worth nothing if we just toss heavys and missiles to 100+ defense everywhere. I don't care about my settlers, I care about them only slightly more then Shaun and I dont care about Shaun one damn bit.

It only needs red spawn points in build view, pathable A.I. that will appear in your base should no path be found, a invitation to port to your settlement with a 3 min window to prepare, and buffed attackers, just balanced attackers to actually make a decent TD mini game. Heck, even an option to have your settlement broadcast a challange and get attacked in like 5 mins, flip the switch, attack incoming (or flip the switch, option screen to select level of attack, waves, ect) Boom, done deal, fun little side game. Get traps useful to lay dots.

Good ideas!

I installed Mortal Settlers, Minutement Overhaul, and the mods mentioned above (among others) and have the game play similarly to what you're suggesting.