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I get that Bethesda adds lots of little quirks and micro stuff which is really neat. But "Did you see that the Fens had a serial killer??" doesnt really equate to the main story being utter garbage. I admit that to alot of people, that might sound a little harsh, and I am truly not trying to be an ass, but once you peek under the hood of the story the entire story just falls apart at even the most basic level of scrutiny. I mean, Emil Pagliarulo just flat out said that they didnt put much effort into the main story.
Not sure what your talking about with Mass Effect. While yeah, there are some inconsistencies between ME1 and ME2, the story is honestly pretty good and consistent. Its not tremendously broken like for example the Lore of Fallout as a whole
IMHO Cerberus makes sense in ME2. The major problem is the massive break in ME3.
But yes! If I call the story of Fallout 4 bad, I'm specifically talking about the plot. Because FO4 does have some good side stuff (not to mention the god-tier that is Far Harbor). But while some environmental storytelling is neat. Its just that. Neat.
I should also say again I'm not trying to be a random hater. Which I;m not. I love the game and the series. I just want it to be of a high quality. Fallout at its core is a game about good, well crafted stories and characters and world building and about deep moral questions and choices. Its not a game for children nor is it supposed to be a joke franchise.
Anyhoo sorry for the rant and again I apologize if i came off harsh.
I include the entire game in that category. The story is wretched from start to finish, and the only real value it has is assigning some sort of orderliness to the quests. No aspect of the story is worth discussing or taking seriously at all.
No i mean I agree its just its not particularly good writing.
If your an underground society that wants to make sure the surface isnt a threat. The best way to do that is to control the surface. Yet they dont do that. Nor do they really even have a goal except simply "To make synths"
Why? Why do you need synths when they have proven to be incredibly unreliable and prone to literal sabotage and abadonment of their primary directives? Its quite literally the same issue the Robobrains had and the response was to end production of a robot that was simply broken. As the SS says "Maybe this is why you dont put human brains in robots"
So what are the point of them? To infiltrate the surface? Why? If your goal is to control the surface, just work behind the scenes with the minutemen or another faction and give them golden handcuffs. Or form a CPG with you as the manipulators. But all we really get is to randomly kidnap people... for reasons. Like the warwick homestead for example. Why replace someone? Cause now you need to maintain that synths cover, build a new synth that is identical to Roger and Synths arent supposed to be able to change face or body types, deal with the person you replaced and god help you if the synth goes rogue or they get outed.
Why when a simple well protected plot of land and some Mr. Handys guarded by some of the advanced tech of the institute could do the exact same thing.
It just doesnt make alot of sense.
And if the only reason why the Institute doesnt just kill all the people that oppose them is "Cause they wanted to flex" or "Cause they are arrogant and dont think anyone is a threat" i mean idk... maybe its just me but that doesnt feel very compelling.
Maybe... maybe you could make an argument that they feel that way about the Minutemen and the Railroad but with the BOS it just comes off really cheap. Especially when you consider the fact that the Brotherhood of Steel absolutely IS a threat. They are perhaps the greatest threat the Institute has ever faced. They have the technology, resources and manpower to absolutely destroy the Institute if left unmolested.
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE the concept of the Institute. But they really just arent written or handled well at all.
The main plot in FO4 is absolutely irredeemable - I was just saying that's not enough to sink the game or write of its storytelling as a whole because it has these awesome mini stories and lore in every location.
Cerberus in Mass Effect 2 is almost objectively bad. Ignoring the jump from being C-list terrorist mooks in ME1 to intergalactic Bond supervillains and saviours of humanity with endless credits, intel, manpower and tech in ME2. Nothing that TIM does makes any sense after you see the whole picture at that absurd end with the Human Goo Terminator boss.
Literally every mission has huge problems right out of the gate, starting with 'how did they know where Shepard would be, how did they recover his body and why did they rebuild him from the toenail up after the game tells you he was a nobody, unliked and unrespected by the council, the Navy, humanity etc.
If you have the patience for a dozen pages and loved the games overall then this https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=29240 to me is the alpha and omega of writing critiques.
Like in FO4 you don't see the main plot and main faction problems because other parts of the game sweep you off your feet and dazzle you with their brilliance.
Ahhh I see. Yes. I can see that.
And yes. There are lots of elements with FO4 that I love. Just like I said. The main story is a bit of a sore spot for me. Its just... sooo bad.
And admittedly I do know about alot of the plot holes between ME1-ME3. Its just... the dialogue and the characters are so well done its easy to look past it.
They're already invested in developing them and don't want to give up because of a few hiccups that you intend to solve. The performance is presumably also enough of an improvement over Gen 2 synths to make them highly desirable.
They're not inherently for infiltrating the surface, though they happen to be good for it. In cases like Warwick Homestead, replacing one person was the minimum necessary to conduct and observe the experiment in a natural setting.
Pre-war robots have their own issues, and you'd need them in addition to investing effort in cultivating an entirely new piece of land when the alternative is deploying a single synth.
I agree, but that's the implication we get from sources like the Director's recordings (the one regarding the CPG). They weren't out to kill everyone and decided it would be easier to just withdraw and forget bothering with other people like stereotypical nerd introverts.
Keep in mind with the Brotherhood that if they didn't have the Sole Survivor feeding them inside information, they'd have searched the C.I.T. ruins on their own, found nothing (as it's said they already did) and be pointlessly stomping around with no idea where their enemy was hiding.
The Institute does eventually get around to addressing the danger in their own storyline and identifies the Brotherhood as a threat to be ended that's more serious than the Railroad, they're just not desperate in how they handle it.
Airship down (or whatever) and SS is siding with the institute, and having just killed Elder Maxson, finds a synth component on him. Suddenly, SS realizes that it was all an institute plot to destroy the BOS by getting them to attack.
Bwaahaa!
Seriously, the Institute ending needs to be cannon. Why? Lots more BOS groups out there, and Bethesda can't keep killing off the bad guys or they won't have a story for the next game.
They'd have to set up the next game to be "Revenge of the BOS" tho, cuz fans would be upset.
- The Institute never said C.I.T is their one and only site.
- Who knows how many synths are out there in the world between the Institute and Railroad.
- Blowing the lab up with a nuke does not ensure synth technology was destroyed.
- There was no Institute perp walk showing all the scientists were captured either. Not to mention aint even sure the nuke got em all either.
- Were Nick and DiMa the only prototypes?
Think about it, synths have been seen from Maine to D.C with lore verification. Not really much of a stretch to have them found anywhere else.
But for the Institute it may lead to them evolving into a group that doesn't hide underground with no active goals. They could even change from the (relatively) innocent Institute that primarily works for its own ongoing existence to the subversive bogeyman they're believed to be, simply because the personal paradise they'd built was lost.
I mean the game is as explicit as it can be about the fact the institute is nefarious, self serving and irredeemably, cartoonishly evil. Eg the Massachusetts Bay University HDD episode with a ton of witness accounts and another ton of civilian dead bodies.
The only reason it's even discussable is that the game gives you so few logical answers and so little opportunity to really question NPCs. It's as if the writers thought that talking for more than ten seconds would be a dangerous turn off for the average idiot-savant and his attention span. You can hardly follow up on anything anyone says or even know what it is you're going to ask (precisely).
When you do get a few sentences of talk and there is a pertinent question that you ask often by accident, the information barely makes sense and makes no effort to add nuance and relatable conflict.
My predicition - FO6 will have writing 0.1 notches above a mainstream first person shooter of its time, that it to say, just a little mumbo jumbo to serve as an emotional pretext for replacing map 51 with map 52.
We also get Covenant, where people are murdering random travellers over that same level of fear even knowing that they're killing more humans than synths, the CPG and BMI events both being either explicitly or implicitly accidents rather than malice, and the way the Railroad is responsible for a large number of the alleged discoveries of replacements (highlighted by us finding them, the events in Covenant involving Amelia Stockton, and that random encounter where we meet a synth being threatened by his former friends).
University Point is remarkable for being an exception and one that only occurs recently. It's called out as being the work of Kellogg becoming more violent and unstable over time, when it could easily have been handed out as direct Institute malice, and conveniently, Kellogg dies to take the blame, before we get a chance to meet the Institute directly.
There's a game-wide setup that suggests that while the Institute isn't clean-handed by any means, it's also nowhere near as dangerous as the surface believes, leaving the main issue around which the primary conflict revolves as the treatment of synths.
You don't even need to question some of them to find flaws in their account. Take the CPG massacre as an example. We have exactly one person recount the surface version of events, Nick Valentine, who wasn't there, and neither was whoever told him since the story is that everyone there died.
Then when you get to the Institute, they have a different story of the CPG collapsing from bickering and infighting, a claim which is given support by a contemporary recording discussing their efforts to make the whole thing work. A lot of it feels like they began making a more detailed and interesting story, but cut funding halfway through.
I agree that you hardly get to follow up on anything (you can piece most things together, though the purpose of the FEV experiments continuing stands out as unaddressed), and that the half-blind dialogue prompts are catastrophic, destroying most of the potential immersion of talking to someone.
We'll likely see another Elder Scrolls game before then, so I'll reserve judgement on their general course until after seeing that. Starfield doesn't seem to have inspired much confidence, though.
I mean the mayor of DC is hardly being transparent (nor opaque but in the name of a greater good) or relatable. He's spreading fake anti-ghoul bigotry in order to deflect hate from the Institute. Makes no sense for the Institute to put resources into gaslighting plebs - they can do what they want with armies of invisible teleporting replicants where an entire battalion of Gunners can't take down even one of them.