[Spoilers] Vault 81 DNA

[Bullpup]

The institute is looking for pristine DNA and comes to Vault 111 to get it. But why didn't they go to Vault 81? No malfunction at 81 so larger gene pool and no dangers that cryo would have f'd up any sequences.

The 81 dwellers never ventured outside and there are large 'geiger counters' at the entrance for those that talked to traders. You wouldn't get a harmful to DNA dose just by speaking with an irradiated surfacer (who themselves had only a survivable dose of radiation) for ten 5 minutes to swap guns for pipes or whatever.

Officially 81 dwellers were supposed to have been irradiated by their own scientists (and unbeknown to the latter even) through the mole rat food, but if the scientists had succeeded the dwellers would all be dead because of the euthanisation gas, so the scientists either noped out or were found in time and neutralised by someone.

What am I missing?

[Löthar Storm]

Vault 81 has guards and residents capable of self-defense. Vault 111 must've come to be known as the Cryo-Vault within Institute circles and they said you snooze, you lose.

[DouglasGrave]

There is potential exposure since they Vault 81 residents not frozen in time as pristine pre-war specimens. If the official Vault-Tec records explain what was intended, you'd have a population that's been continually subjected to disease experiments (it wasn't radiation) for up to 200 years, and who knows what that's done to the genetic health of the survivors.

In comparison, Vault 111 is a "captive" audience. Little chance of armed resistance, almost no risk of outside exposure, and a perfect infant specimen. They were frozen as they were without any intentional tampering.

[steventirey]

FEV doesn't work well with radiation, so the less radiation someone has absorbed, the better. Vault 81 has been opened, and has had contact with the surface. While they wouldn't be as radiated as someone on the surface, they also wouldn't be clean. They do have people who wander the wasteland (you can come across them during random encounters). The residents of Vault 111, especially a child, would have the best chance of having usable DNA. On top of that, an infant is far easier to control than an adult.

The Institute captures people from the surface. They probably had captured someone from Vault 81 at some point.

Plus as Cadaver said, Vault 111 doesn't have armed guards.

[Fear2288]

Because the Institute wanted the purest and least possibly tainted human DNA, and what better option to get that than a child who was born before 2077 and frozen in cryostasis?

The people of Vault 81 may be far less contaminated and more healthy than your average wastelander, but once they opened the Vault they exposed themselves to some level of radiation and potentially other things.

There’s also the reasons others have stated above. While the Institute is more than capable of just going into 81 and grabbing someone, it would still be difficult. Recall that it was Shaun’s DNA that was key to creating Gen 3s. Thus, the Institute would’ve had to rely on their Gen 1s and 2s, or a bruiser like Kellogg. There would be no infiltration, no Gen 3 posing as a human or taking an 81 dweller’s place and sneaking someone out with no one the wiser, and no highly skilled murder machine Coursers.

They would’ve had to straight up assault 81 or try and negotiate with them and convince someone to voluntarily come with them and be made an experiment of…which probably wouldn’t have been likely.

Also, when did 81 open anyways? If it was before they grabbed Shaun it could’ve been an option on the table, but if it didn’t open until after they grabbed Shaun that could’ve had something to do with it - perhaps they didn’t even know 81 existed or they may have not had the means to crack open the vault door. 81’s door needs to be opened from the outside with a Pip-Boy, whereas 111 had a convenient red button in a nearby trailer.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Also, when did 81 open anyways? If it was before they grabbed Shaun it could’ve been an option on the table, but if it didn’t open until after they grabbed Shaun that could’ve had something to do with it - perhaps they didn’t even know 81 existed or they may have not had the means to crack open the vault door. 81’s door needs to be opened from the outside with a Pip-Boy, whereas 111 had a convenient red button in a nearby trailer.

According to a terminal entry, about 10 years before the time of the game. So about 2277. Its possible the Institute didn't know about Vault 81, or possibly could have known what Vault-Tec intended to do with the Vault (meaning it wouldn't be a good candidate for a sample). Or they knew of its existence, and determined Vault 111 to be an easier target (it wasm due to being smaller and having its population frozen). But that is all speculation.

As for needing a Pip-Boy, those really wouldn't be all that hard to get hold of. There are multiple Vaults in the area, as well as the Vault-Tec Regional HQ. And even if they couldn't get hold of one themselves, there was likely data somewhere that could have allowed them to find a way to open a Vault.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Also, when did 81 open anyways? If it was before they grabbed Shaun it could’ve been an option on the table, but if it didn’t open until after they grabbed Shaun that could’ve had something to do with it - perhaps they didn’t even know 81 existed or they may have not had the means to crack open the vault door. 81’s door needs to be opened from the outside with a Pip-Boy, whereas 111 had a convenient red button in a nearby trailer.

The external button operates the elevator to outside, but they would presumably still need to get through the vault door at the bottom.

[Zes]

vault 81 is not sealed, they open up to do trades, they just don't go out but could be exposed to rad and disease

I could have raided there easily. Just use a trader to do talk, or give what they wanted to open up (or say you gonna give) then rpg attack to entry area.. flow in

gunners can handle it, maybe thats how they settled in malden

[asarokk]

If I recall correctly, the only malfunction at Vault 111 happened during the period in which Vault 111 was still operational, due to a maintenance mistake one of the cryokinetic pods terminated its occupant. If a cryokinetic occupant would however be at risk due to any biological issue, Vault tec. regulation stated that any life-preserving measures were forbidden. The outcome was not to preserve life, but to observe what effects a prolonged cryokinetic exposure would have on the living.

After the 180 day mandatory shelter period expired, with still no word from Vault tec. and dwindling supplies conflict ensued between the scientists and the security personnel. The scientists were convinced Vault Tec. would send word but for all they knew Vault Tec. may have conducted a separate experiment on them to see what would happen with their staff after 180 days.

Vault 111 may have been a completely sealed vault, but once the surviving members of the security massacred the scientists, they unsealed the Vault and got out. Ergo, the vault wasn't sealed. It had already been opened once, then a second time by the Institute. But even if it had never been opened, enough radiation got in to effect and mutate a bunch of cockroaches. And even then, fallout shelters mostly provide protection from the shockwave and falling debris following the explosion and may keep most of the radiation out, but even the best shelter cannot completely avoid gamma radiation. After all, the Institute had dug itself deep underground and could still not escape from it entirely. Not to mention, before the use of mercenaries like Kellogg and their first synth production, they had to send their own members to the surface.

It appears the only living beings that had the possibility to be escape radiation are Baby Shaun, Nora and Nate, along with their neighbours who were put into the cryokinetic pods escaped from radiation. Even if they just barely escaped the shockwave from the nearest explosion, since shock waves are acoustic in nature. Risk of radiation exposure from a shockwave alone is miniscule. The radiation cloud travels much slower than sound despite optimal weather conditions and has generally a limited radius depending on the size of the bomb.

I can only think of one Vault tec. vault that was made secret from both the public and from the government. The Corporate Vault, which was Vault tec.'s private vault, responsible for further research, experimentation and developing technology that lined up with their interests. It was operational until the Initiate (Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel) destroyed it. Surely Vault tec. must have made more, but all of the named Vaults, were advertised and most of the locations were even known in the wasteland. If not, the Institute should have been able to access that information from Vault Tec. facilities, both remotely (as they did with Vault 111 to check information on the cryokinetic occupants) and by sending a scouting/raiding party.

Everything inside of the Vault 111 worked perfectly, except for the communication. Which was either broken sometime during the mandatory 180 days or it was never meant to work both ways. The fact that the Institute could access Vault 111 remotely can be viewed evidence to it being the latter. It shouldn't come as a surprise Vault tec. didn't value the lives of their staff members, with such little regard for human life.

Now, even though Vault 111 was not sealed anymore by the time Kellogg took baby Shaun, opening up the Vault one time versus the many times Vault 81 opened their doors to traders, is far better. Not to mention, the occupants still had protection from the cryokinetic pods. Even though Vault 81 had Geiger counters, anything they would take from the surface would be tainted. Avoiding contamination completely would be impossible. That, and their vault was designed to contaminate the civilian section of the vault. Even though the first Overseer sabotaged it, the scientist section of the vault contained numerous biological hazards. Let's be clear, if the Institute wanted anything from Vault 81, their guards would not pose much of a threat. After all, they did have Kellogg, the means to hire many more mercenaries and an army of early model synths they didn't care about having destroyed.

The Institute has been collecting information for a very long time, by the year 2287 I'm sure the Institute had already known about Vault tec.'s little human experimentation hobby. Getting pristine human DNA from any of their Vaults, but Vault 111 would have been impossible.

As to why Baby Shaun was taken, instead of anyone else. Well, it's much easier to take an infant instead of a grown person. Not only because it's smaller and it weighs less, but also because it's more manageable. Easier to make them more compliant. And since they are taking an infant, its parent would make the best "spare" due to the whole shared DNA thing.

The rest of the cryokinetic occupants were not necessary, so all other cryokinetic pods aside from the parent were terminated. Order of the Institute of course.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by asarokk:

due to a maintenance mistake one of the cryokinetic pods terminated its occupant.

Cryogenic is the word you want. Cryokenitc is the control of cold with your mind, like pryokenisis (controlling heat) or telekinesis (moving objects at a distance).

Now, even though Vault 111 was not sealed anymore by the time Kellogg took baby Shaun, opening up the Vault one time versus the many times Vault 81 opened their doors to traders, is far better.

Vault 81 didn't start opening up until decades after Kellogg entered Vault 111.

[asarokk]

Originally posted by steventirey:

Originally posted by asarokk:

due to a maintenance mistake one of the cryokinetic pods terminated its occupant.

Cryogenic is the word you want. Cryokenitc is the control of cold with your mind, like pryokenisis (controlling heat) or telekinesis (moving objects at a distance).

Ah. Yes, you're right. That is what I meant, thank you for correcting me

Originally posted by steventirey:

Originally posted by asarokk:

Now, even though Vault 111 was not sealed anymore by the time Kellogg took baby Shaun, opening up the Vault one time versus the many times Vault 81 opened their doors to traders, is far better.

Vault 81 didn't start opening up until decades after Kellogg entered Vault 111.

Hmm. You sound convinced. That may be true. I don't remember the dates unfortunately, but Kellogg is at least 118 years old has been employed by the Institute a long time. Even without him, accessing information of all Vault tec. vaults in the Commonwealth is a relatively easy task for the Institute and bottom-line they chose Vault 111 as it is the only viable option with the possibility of acquiring a pristine DNA source. The Institute opened Vault 111 with no problem and if their target was in Vault 81, I'm convinced their guards wouldn't have posed much of an obstacle. They simply would have sent a larger retrieval team with more firepower. Not to mention during a siege, the besieged is usually at a disadvantage.

[steventirey]

Originally posted by asarokk:

Vault 81 didn't start opening up until decades after Kellogg entered Vault 111.

Hmm. You sound convinced. That may be true.

As I said earlier, there is a terminal entry. Vault 81 has been open for 10 years, and the current game year is 2287. Father is also 60 years old, so had to have been stolen 60 years ago. Vault 81 was not yet open at that time.

I don't remember the dates unfortunately, but Kellogg is at least 118 years old has been employed by the Institute a long time.

We see Kelloggs memories, and in one of them he is a child listening to a broadcast about the founding of the NCR. That happened in 2189, 98 years before the current date. While no actual age is given, he does have a child character model at that time and the script notes say he is supposed to be 10 at that time. So that would make Kellogg 108 at most.

Even without him, accessing information of all Vault tec. vaults in the Commonwealth is a relatively easy task for the Institute and bottom-line they chose Vault 111 as it is the only viable option with the possibility of acquiring a pristine DNA source.

We don't know this at all. The other Vaults could have been an option, or the Institute could not have know about them at all. We don't know anything about the information the Institute had or how they acquired it.

The Institute opened Vault 111 with no problem and if their target was in Vault 81, I'm convinced their guards wouldn't have posed much of an obstacle. They simply would have sent a larger retrieval team with more firepower. Not to mention during a siege, the besieged is usually at a disadvantage.

We don't know how the Institute got into the Vault. There is just no evidence they forced their way in (no holes, no blast marks, or things of that nature). Also, sieging a vault isn't like sieging a castle or city in the real world. Vaults are designed to be self sufficient. Castles and cities aren't - they need access to outside supplies.

[DouglasGrave]

An infant is a preference as a genetic subject not simply because it's manageable (which isn't really an issue if what you're after is a genetic sample), but because it's had little or no life of its own during which to wander around and suffer genetic damage.

Originally posted by asarokk:

Vault 111 may have been a completely sealed vault, but once the surviving members of the security massacred the scientists, they unsealed the Vault and got out. Ergo, the vault wasn't sealed. It had already been opened once, then a second time by the Institute. But even if it had never been opened, enough radiation got in to effect and mutate a bunch of cockroaches. And even then, fallout shelters mostly provide protection from the shockwave and falling debris following the explosion and may keep most of the radiation out, but even the best shelter cannot completely avoid gamma radiation. After all, the Institute had dug itself deep underground and could still not escape from it entirely. Not to mention, before the use of mercenaries like Kellogg and their first synth production, they had to send their own members to the surface.

We should also remember that the Institute's knowledge isn't perfect; they won't actually know what's inside sealed vaults until they go and look. While getting access to Vault-Tec records elsewhere would tell them who went in before the bombs fell, they wouldn't automatically know about any internal revolt by the guards, and the mutant cockroaches may not actually have been there until after Kellogg's visit.

If you're going to pick a target based on the available information before visiting, Vault 111 is a clear frontrunner.