Far Harbour (Child of Atom)

[Crowsy]

If as soon you get to Far Harbour can you go to the child of Atom and wipe them Out? Just wondered if that is possible and would it break anything?

[Xenon The Noble]

Spock was a fudged up idea of "Logical". Unemotional is not logic.
Emotion tells you where you want to go. Logic is the tool that helps you get there.
DiMA's nutty solution doesn't stop the CoA from going genocide again, just as it did when Grand Gullet Rectum took over from DiMA's friend. CoA is a death cult.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Getting DiMA's memories is an obtainable goal. It's their intent to do so. It's also the intent of Grande Poohbah Rectum to destroy Far Harbor and kill every harbor man, woman and child. You find that out after SS joins and Rectum gives his "kill them all" speech.

The Children do not even remotely have the capacity to retrieve DiMA's memories, even should they get past the physical defenses. The Sole Survivor only gains access with a customized program supplied by the Acadians.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

CoA shoot at heretics with those radiation guns, which can ruin SS' day. As in "Wake up in bed from that morning and start over". I suppose they were chased out, I can't say I recall anything about that one way or the other, just that DiMA gave them the sub base like the broken toaster that he is. But the beasts of far harbor don't care about their puny radiation guns. CoA are a tasty treat.

While you technically can fight with gamma guns, it's the radium rifles and the zealots in marine armour that I'd expect to carry more of the fighting in regard to hostile local beasts.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

The Rail Road helped many of the escaped Synths at Arcadia, like that ex-Courser.

The Far Harbour DLC adds a new NPC to the Railroad HQ specifically for informing them about Acadia because they aren't aware it exists.

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Boxer_(Far_Harbor)

While DiMA seems to have some awareness of the Railroad, I don't recall Chase (the Acadian ex-courser) having a single word to say about them helping her. She has a network of contacts, both from her Institute time and afterwards, but never identifies the Railroad as being involved and she met DiMA as part of an Institute mission, rather than with anyone else's assistance.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by wtiger27:

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

How far had they gotten with that?

They also wouldn't be anywhere near the Nucleus in the first place if the Harbourmen hadn't driven all their people who believed in Atom out into the wilderness.

The Railroad hasn't touched DiMA, nor are they even aware of the synths in Acadia until we tell them about them.

I agree. Besides, the launch key will only destroy the COA if they use it. DIMA does not want them have access to it because he understood they would only blow themselves up and kill some innocent people there at the Sub base.

In my last several play runs, I always pick to have the peaceful end for all the people and synths there. At the sacrifice of a few people. Countries do this all the time in wars. They sacrifice the lives of soldiers for the better outcome for the many.

As Spock would say, " The needs of the many, exceeds the needs of the one. " If I quoted that right.

The sad thing is that I think the way they leave you with no option to permanently lock out destroying Far Harbour or the Nucleus implies that destroying both of them may be the canon ending.

If so, either DiMA will die as well at the Harbourmen's hands, or he will end up with a safe place for the Acadians only at the cost of the other two groups destroying themselves or each other, which is the opposite of what he wants.

[wtiger27]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by wtiger27:

I agree. Besides, the launch key will only destroy the COA if they use it. DIMA does not want them have access to it because he understood they would only blow themselves up and kill some innocent people there at the Sub base.

In my last several play runs, I always pick to have the peaceful end for all the people and synths there. At the sacrifice of a few people. Countries do this all the time in wars. They sacrifice the lives of soldiers for the better outcome for the many.

As Spock would say, " The needs of the many, exceeds the needs of the one. " If I quoted that right.

The sad thing is that I think the way they leave you with no option to permanently lock out destroying Far Harbour or the Nucleus implies that destroying both of them may be the canon ending.

If so, either DiMA will die as well at the Harbourmen's hands, or he will end up with a safe place for the Acadians only at the cost of the other two groups destroying themselves or each other, which is the opposite of what he wants.

Maybe. But I don't get those negative vibs from choosing the peace path for all the factions. It's for me, the best ending there.

[-={LG}=-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pstgUrs-lu4

[Xenon The Noble]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Getting DiMA's memories is an obtainable goal. It's their intent to do so. It's also the intent of Grande Poohbah Rectum to destroy Far Harbor and kill every harbor man, woman and child. You find that out after SS joins and Rectum gives his "kill them all" speech.

The Children do not even remotely have the capacity to retrieve DiMA's memories, even should they get past the physical defenses. The Sole Survivor only gains access with a customized program supplied by the Acadians.

You have a good point there.
But:
1) the CoA were trying to get to DiMA's memories. When you join and try and go in, the persons standing watch says others have tried and died. I guess they didn't know the security. BUT they had the intent to get them.
2) You're right, DiMA had a way to decode the memories. Because he thought he might need to kill all the people of Far Harbor later.

Originally posted by DiMA's memory #2:

Transcript

System Voice: Memory file identification: 0J-2NN8. Converted to audio transcription. Beginning playback.
DiMA: I'm offloading this memory. I cannot bear lying to Confessor Martin and his Children of Atom any longer. Better to just forget. I found it. The location of the launch key to fire the nuclear missile inside the submarine. Confessor Martin believes it can bring his people into Division. Destruction at the hands of an atomic blast. He struggles with how literal his interpretation of that precept should be. I can't risk him deciding to find the key and use it. His people were the first to... accept me for what I am. The thought of them being gone fills me with nothing but pain.
System Voice: Additional data appended. Location: The Harbor Grand Hotel Safe Room. Keycode: 485130.

Originally posted by Tectus speech:

... {Neutral} Over time, he came to realize this place was meant for us. When he finally left to found a refuge of his own, it was as trusted friends. Brethren. {Stern} His sole condition - we must never access his memories. {Stern} And we kept that bargain, until he betrayed us by gifting those accursed condensers to Far Harbor. {Stern} And I know that the key to their destruction is hidden inside those memories. We've tried for some time now to secure them, but without success {Stern} But we will have what is in those memories. Whatever the cost. Now, more questions?

Tektus intends to get DiMA's memories. Saying they didn't at the point SS shows up doesn't mean that they won't. DiMA made that agrement because he apparently knew that if they tried hard enough, they could access his memories.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

2) You're right, DiMA had a way to decode the memories. Because he thought he might need to kill all the people of Far Harbor later.

Not necessarily, as his memories contain a variety of elements and that's just a single one. The same program is used for retrieving all of them.

Originally posted by DiMA's memory #2:

Transcript

System Voice: Memory file identification: 0J-2NN8. Converted to audio transcription. Beginning playback.
DiMA: I'm offloading this memory. I cannot bear lying to Confessor Martin and his Children of Atom any longer. Better to just forget. I found it. The location of the launch key to fire the nuclear missile inside the submarine. Confessor Martin believes it can bring his people into Division. Destruction at the hands of an atomic blast. He struggles with how literal his interpretation of that precept should be. I can't risk him deciding to find the key and use it. His people were the first to... accept me for what I am. The thought of them being gone fills me with nothing but pain.
System Voice: Additional data appended. Location: The Harbor Grand Hotel Safe Room. Keycode: 485130.

Originally posted by Tectus speech:

... {Neutral} Over time, he came to realize this place was meant for us. When he finally left to found a refuge of his own, it was as trusted friends. Brethren. {Stern} His sole condition - we must never access his memories. {Stern} And we kept that bargain, until he betrayed us by gifting those accursed condensers to Far Harbor. {Stern} And I know that the key to their destruction is hidden inside those memories. We've tried for some time now to secure them, but without success {Stern} But we will have what is in those memories. Whatever the cost. Now, more questions?

Tektus intends to get DiMA's memories. Saying they didn't at the point SS shows up doesn't mean that they won't. DiMA made that agrement because he apparently knew that if they tried hard enough, they could access his memories. [/quote]Ironically, what this says is that Tektus isn't after the launch key but a way to stop the fog condensers (though DiMA would be equally concerned about keeping that information unused as well). However, Tektus hasn't managed to get anywhere near accessing them, and knows neither the contents nor what he needs to read them.

If he ever reached the inner chamber, Tektus would be forced to give up because the computer system is impenetrable as far as the Children of Atom are concerned.

[Xenon The Noble]

what is your explaination for DiMA saving the memories at all then?
Is the game wrong that DiMA is saving it because he might need to use it later?

Originally posted by DiMA memory #3:

Transcript
[System Voice: [i]Memory file identification: 0H-3X0P. Converted to audio transcription. Beginning playback.[/i]
DiMA: I've made a contingency plan in case Far Harbor discovers the truth, or gives in to their xenophobia despite all my efforts. I've isolated the wind turbine powering Far Harbor's Fog Condensers. A kill switch command will leave them defenseless from the Fog and its creatures. But now that's it done, am I really capable of this? This... massacre, that I've engineered... I'm going to remove the command code from my memories. I'll bury a hardcopy if I need to use it, but I can't keep it close to me. It makes me sick...
System Voice: Additional location data appended. Coordinates to the Kill Switch Command Code and the Wind farm maintenance Building.

DiMA keeps memories of his wickedness and evil plots because he might use them later.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

what is your explaination for DiMA saving the memories at all then?
Is the game wrong that DiMA is saving it because he might need to use it later?

I think if I was stripping out my own memories, I'd want to keep them just in case I wrecked something in the process. But I'd agree he intellectually thinks he might need them.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Originally posted by DiMA memory #3:

Transcript
[System Voice: [i]Memory file identification: 0H-3X0P. Converted to audio transcription. Beginning playback.[/i]
DiMA: I've made a contingency plan in case Far Harbor discovers the truth, or gives in to their xenophobia despite all my efforts. I've isolated the wind turbine powering Far Harbor's Fog Condensers. A kill switch command will leave them defenseless from the Fog and its creatures. But now that's it done, am I really capable of this? This... massacre, that I've engineered... I'm going to remove the command code from my memories. I'll bury a hardcopy if I need to use it, but I can't keep it close to me. It makes me sick...
System Voice: Additional location data appended. Coordinates to the Kill Switch Command Code and the Wind farm maintenance Building.

DiMA keeps memories of his wickedness and evil plots because he might use them later.

So why keep memories of Avery at all? It's not like he's going to replace her again. Emotionally, the toll even doing that much took on him was extreme enough that he'd never want to use the plans. He didn't want to replace Avery either; it was the only thing he could do to restrain the xenophobia and bloodshed it would cause.

Remember, what we have from DiMA is a single death, enacted to prevent many deaths on both sides of the conflict, and plans that he has never used and never wants to use. In "wickedness" he rates well below a natural human like Allen Lee who slaughters out of hand to satisfy his thirst for blood and is openly eager to do so again.

Put the key in his hand and the panel in front of him, and Allen would turn that switch without a second thought. That's the kind of insanity DiMA is up against.

[Xenon The Noble]

DiMA keeps the memory about Avery so he can do it again if something bad happens to Avery. He has the lab already set up in the Vim Pop factory. DiMA doesn't die of old age, exactly. Someone is going to notice that Avery doesn't age. So, he would need to replace it.
Synths are toasters. DiMA is a killer toaster, clearly why the Institute disposed of him.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

DiMA keeps the memory about Avery so he can do it again if something bad happens to Avery. He has the lab already set up in the Vim Pop factory. DiMA doesn't die of old age, exactly. Someone is going to notice that Avery doesn't age. So, he would need to replace it.
Synths are toasters. DiMA is a killer toaster, clearly why the Institute disposed of him.

You've got a chicken and egg problem there, because DiMA having locked the memories away means he doesn't remember their contents, so he won't know to do that even if it happened. If something happens to Avery or she's revealed as a synth, he'll be as surprised as anyone.

It's generally an issue for all those potential uses for his extracted memories, and pretending he could access the information is likely a way to delude himself into abandoning the practical need he felt for it in favour of his emotional desire to throw it away forever. With the memories removed, he wouldn't even try to touch them since he had no idea of their nature or relevance.

DiMA has killed, but he isn't a killer by nature, unlike the Harbourmen (Allen Lee and Cassie Dalton being prime examples).

[Xenon The Noble]

DiMA says he's saving the memory incase he wants to use it later. So, not an argument.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

DiMA says he's saving the memory incase he wants to use it later. So, not an argument.

He doesn't even know what's in the memory afterwards, and what he said beforehand doesn't make a difference to that.

Knowing both those things, DiMA presumably first removed the command code itself from his memory (leaving only the hardcopy mentioned), then later also removed his memory of even having the hardcopy around.

[Xenon The Noble]

So, you're saying DiMA may have killed hundreds of people, wiped the memory, and is "all better now".

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

So, you're saying DiMA may have killed hundreds of people, wiped the memory, and is "all better now".

No, just that the removal of memories isn't a single event since he was in the Nucleus able to remove them for a long time.

DiMA isn't making things good by forgetting the memory of replacing Avery, it's because he's already acting with good intent (wanting to prevent wholesale bloodshed) that doing what he intellectually knew was necessary was traumatic for him.

His erasure of his own methods for killing is done for a similar reason, overcoming first the need to keep them close at hand out of pragmatic fears for the danger, and once he's managed to separate himself eventually being able to strip them out entirely.

DiMA's issue is confronting the "trolley problem" where he knows that acting to reduce the overall casualties is what he calculates as the best outcome, but emotionally he still doesn't enjoy even a single death.