Far Harbour (Child of Atom)

[Crowsy]

If as soon you get to Far Harbour can you go to the child of Atom and wipe them Out? Just wondered if that is possible and would it break anything?

[wtiger27]

You can. That is if some of the NPC's are not marked as essential because they are tied to the Main quest there. But you will miss out on some of the best items in the game and can not complete several quests.

Not anything I would do. But it's your game.

[Xenon The Noble]

Originally posted by Crowsy:

If as soon you get to Far Harbour can you go to the child of Atom and wipe them Out? Just wondered if that is possible and would it break anything?

Best to go to DiMA first, and get the decoder to his memories.
Then you can wipe out the CoA, recover his memories, and then get the key to the nuke. Blow them up.
Then get Avery's skull and rat her out to Alan Lee. Then they take care of the synths.
Now, Far Harbor is populated with smug gits, so sometimes I shut off he windmills and laughter ensues. Be sure to get all the settlements before shutting them down if you want them for bases. Needs one near South Harbor, IMHO.

[TheLoveMummy]

Ive added the sub key via console and just blown them up and it fails the missions and dimas. I always narc dima out to the brotherhood or the institute and they will clean it up.

[Crowsy]

Thanks for the ideas lads. I've done this mission many times before as we all have I reckon I just find the CoA so tedious, lol.

I'm liking your thoughts Xenon, if you wipe out the synths doesn't that mean no more fig condensers or can the Island survive without them?

[Xenon The Noble]

Originally posted by Crowsy:

Thanks for the ideas lads. I've done this mission many times before as we all have I reckon I just find the CoA so tedious, lol.

I'm liking your thoughts Xenon, if you wipe out the synths doesn't that mean no more fig condensers or can the Island survive without them?

They say no more fog condensers, but... they just keep going without the synths, and no one seems worried about fog condensers. You get a few worried that the nuke explosion will cause more rads, you get some concerned that you broke a bunch of broken toasters, no one says "Where can we get more fog condensers?"
And since DiMA was going to murder Far Harbor anyway, what's the difference?

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Originally posted by Crowsy:

Thanks for the ideas lads. I've done this mission many times before as we all have I reckon I just find the CoA so tedious, lol.

I'm liking your thoughts Xenon, if you wipe out the synths doesn't that mean no more fig condensers or can the Island survive without them?

They say no more fog condensers, but... they just keep going without the synths, and no one seems worried about fog condensers. You get a few worried that the nuke explosion will cause more rads, you get some concerned that you broke a bunch of broken toasters, no one says "Where can we get more fog condensers?"
And since DiMA was going to murder Far Harbor anyway, what's the difference?

Lynch mobs aren't known for their careful consideration and long-term planning, so while wiping out the Acadians does mean that the fog condensers will eventually fail without their support, the Harbourmen don't yet realize that they've fatally shot themselves in the foot. Just like in the main game, all the long-term consequences of our faction choices in the DLC are off in the future, beyond the end of the story as Bethesda is telling it.

I wouldn't worry about the Harbourmen though, since giving Allen Lee a free pass for murdering a preacher in cold blood and stirring up trouble for everyone in the first place shows that they deserve whatever other trouble they bring on themselves through their short-sighted idiocy.

I don't consider DiMA to have posed any threat to either Far Harbour or the Nucleus, since he'd deliberately scooped out his own memories of the plans to prevent them being used, and has no desire for them to be implemented even if the Sole Survivor digs them up.

[Crowsy]

Allen Lee can murder the CoA preacher? Myself I think the Harbourmen have a right to fight against the CoA. With Arcadia while I don't particularly go along with their beliefs I wouldn't mind them surviving or not.

[Xenon The Noble]

DiMA didn't delete the memory, he stored it. He needed to free up space and he wasn't going to kill them right away unless FH angered him further by roughing up more toasters. I don't understand why he just didn't mind wipe the synths who were roughed up, he had no problem mind wiping others, like Synth Avery. With Synth Avery in place, he controlled Far Harbor, more or less. So, why shut off the windmills?
Isn't a mind wipe a way to see if Synths are Synths?
You never do find out of the CoA controls the fog, do you? It sounds like they don't control the fog, but they do have a death wish against the people of FH. Hard to live with people who want to kill you. Hey, so the people of Far Harbor are the decedents of people who lived there before the war. Then the CoA moves in, conspires with DiMA, and have a murder hate for the people on the Island. I'd be a bit disappointed in the CoA as well if they moved intto my country and wanted me dead.
The CoA even have a death wish for themselves, which is why DiMA hid the nuclear boom key - DiMA figured they'd use it. What's wrong with that? Why can the CoA blow themselves up but SS can't?

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Crowsy:

Allen Lee can murder the CoA preacher? Myself I think the Harbourmen have a right to fight against the CoA. With Arcadia while I don't particularly go along with their beliefs I wouldn't mind them surviving or not.

When you listen to the history of the two groups, you have Confessor Martin and Tektus turning up alone to spread the word of Atom to Far Harbour. They gather some converts then get treated worse and worse for no particularly good reason until they're at the Nucleus with Tektus ousting the more peaceful Martin as leader because they'd had enough of it.

All the trouble with the Children is of the Harbourmen's making, so if anything I'd say the Children have a right to fight them. Though it's lucky for the Harbourmen that it hasn't reached the level of open warfare, since the Children would wipe the floor with them (far better equipment, a much more defensible base, and most of the Children are blessed with immunity to radiation).

Funnily enough, I'd even say DiMA's intervention (with Avery) is the only reason the Harbourmen haven't already gotten themselves wiped out. If Allen Lee had his way they'd already be out there getting themselves blown to pieces by zealots in marine armour.

[Xenon The Noble]

so, how does that work? "hi, nice Island you have here. Convert to my death cult or you die" and "Okay, I can kill you now because you didn't convert and weren't nice to me".
How is it the Harbor people's fault that the CoA came the Harbor people didn't convert to their religion?
Are we really gonna go with the "might makes right" argument?
Since when is a toaster that murders people a good thing? DiMA is clearly defective. DiMA is not a person, it's a machine that mimics a stuck up and haughty person who has delusional ideas that include homicide.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

DiMA didn't delete the memory, he stored it. He needed to free up space and he wasn't going to kill them right away unless FH angered him further by roughing up more toasters. I don't understand why he just didn't mind wipe the synths who were roughed up, he had no problem mind wiping others, like Synth Avery. With Synth Avery in place, he controlled Far Harbor, more or less. So, why shut off the windmills?

If he'd thought he'd ever want those plans, he could have just kept a note of it, especially given their importance. And he didn't just remove the memories themselves, he removed the memory of even having that kind of idea, so that he couldn't even think of using it.

He was never angry at the Harbourmen or the Children as far as I can tell.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Isn't a mind wipe a way to see if Synths are Synths?

That I'd have doubts about, since I'm not sure if it's safe to try rewriting a natural human brain. It sounds like a really good way to give someone brain damage, while still not being sure whether they're a synth because it doesn't always work for synths either.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

You never do find out of the CoA controls the fog, do you? It sounds like they don't control the fog, but they do have a death wish against the people of FH. Hard to live with people who want to kill you. Hey, so the people of Far Harbor are the decedents of people who lived there before the war. Then the CoA moves in, conspires with DiMA, and have a murder hate for the people on the Island. I'd be a bit disappointed in the CoA as well if they moved intto my country and wanted me dead.

If they were actually able to control the Fog, why oppose them for having beliefs that work? They're only so against the Harbourmen now because of how they've been treated.

The Children of Atom started out doing nothing more than preaching, and some of their number (like the Archemist) were Harbourmen in the first place thrown into the wilderness by their own neighbours for joining Martin and Tektus. Doesn't seem to matter much to the Harbourmen that those people they turfed out were just as much descendants of people who lived there before the war, does it?

I mean, remember Fallout 3, with the Children of Atom living in Megaton right alongside everyone else and perfectly happy? That's what Far Harbour could have been like without jerks like Allen.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

The CoA even have a death wish for themselves, which is why DiMA hid the nuclear boom key - DiMA figured they'd use it. What's wrong with that? Why can the CoA blow themselves up but SS can't?

Plenty of religions uphold martyrdom as a noble thing in the right circumstances, and being willing to die for what you believe is a very different thing to having someone else murder you.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

so, how does that work? "hi, nice Island you have here. Convert to my death cult or you die" and "Okay, I can kill you now because you didn't convert and weren't nice to me".
How is it the Harbor people's fault that the CoA came the Harbor people didn't convert to their religion?

There's no indication of any forced conversion there; some people joined the Children and some others didn't like it and threw out their own people.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Are we really gonna go with the "might makes right" argument?
Since when is a toaster that murders people a good thing? DiMA is clearly defective. DiMA is not a person, it's a machine that mimics a stuck up and haughty person who has delusional ideas that include homicide.

Since when is an Allen Lee that murders people a good thing, either? Allen is clearly defective.

DiMA doesn't like what he's done, but he was at least acting to try and keep things peaceful, with as many people as possible alive instead of tearing each other to pieces.

He does have the issue that he's trying to please everyone, which ultimately means he'll please no-one. Personally, I think it would have worked out better if he'd never helped Far Harbour by giving them fog condensers (which they don't appreciate anyway). Without the condensers, the Harbourmen would have been driven off the Island to find somewhere better to live, and when Martin and Tektus arrived, they'd have the radiation-blessed island mostly to themselves with no arguments.

[Xenon The Noble]

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

DiMA didn't delete the memory, he stored it. He needed to free up space and he wasn't going to kill them right away unless FH angered him further by roughing up more toasters. I don't understand why he just didn't mind wipe the synths who were roughed up, he had no problem mind wiping others, like Synth Avery. With Synth Avery in place, he controlled Far Harbor, more or less. So, why shut off the windmills?

If he'd thought he'd ever want those plans, he could have just kept a note of it, especially given their importance. And he didn't just remove the memories themselves, he removed the memory of even having that kind of idea, so that he couldn't even think of using it.

He was never angry at the Harbourmen or the Children as far as I can tell.

Okay, DiMA was not angry at FH. he was just gonna kill them all by shutting down the Windfarm, but he was going to do it very nicely!

Originally posted by DouglasGrave:

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Isn't a mind wipe a way to see if Synths are Synths?

That I'd have doubts about, since I'm not sure if it's safe to try rewriting a natural human brain. It sounds like a really good way to give someone brain damage, while still not being sure whether they're a synth because it doesn't always work for synths either.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

You never do find out of the CoA controls the fog, do you? It sounds like they don't control the fog, but they do have a death wish against the people of FH. Hard to live with people who want to kill you. Hey, so the people of Far Harbor are the decedents of people who lived there before the war. Then the CoA moves in, conspires with DiMA, and have a murder hate for the people on the Island. I'd be a bit disappointed in the CoA as well if they moved intto my country and wanted me dead.

If they were actually able to control the Fog, why oppose them for having beliefs that work? They're only so against the Harbourmen now because of how they've been treated.

The Children of Atom started out doing nothing more than preaching, and some of their number (like the Archemist) were Harbourmen in the first place thrown into the wilderness by their own neighbours for joining Martin and Tektus. Doesn't seem to matter much to the Harbourmen that those people they turfed out were just as much descendants of people who lived there before the war, does it?

I mean, remember Fallout 3, with the Children of Atom living in Megaton right alongside everyone else and perfectly happy? That's what Far Harbour could have been like without jerks like Allen.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

The CoA even have a death wish for themselves, which is why DiMA hid the nuclear boom key - DiMA figured they'd use it. What's wrong with that? Why can the CoA blow themselves up but SS can't?

Plenty of religions uphold martyrdom as a noble thing in the right circumstances, and being willing to die for what you believe is a very different thing to having someone else murder you.

So, you say DiMA was wrong and they'd never use the bomb to obtain "division in his sight".. Okay. DiMA is a stupid robot.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Okay, DiMA was not angry at FH. he was just gonna kill them all by shutting down the Windfarm, but he was going to do it very nicely!

I think he might have used it as a threat to get them to back down, but it's hard to imagine him even doing that much with his personality. This is the guy who's happier with being killed by a bigoted hypocrite like Allen while hoping that the other Harbourmen will listen to reason and not blame the entire Acadian community.

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

So, you say DiMA was wrong and they'd never use the bomb to obtain "division in his sight".. Okay. DiMA is a stupid robot.

Tektus is the kind to do it, but without him as the leader I don't think the majority of the Children would be ready to hug a bomb for anything except the warm tingly feeling of its radiation.

[Solomon Hawk]

The trouble with the Harbourmen didn't start with them.
You already know they are the decendents of the original residents that lived there for generations.
The problem began when missionary zealots from the Children of Atom came to Far Harbor and started preaching it was Atom's Will they lost the island. In as much, laying claim to the island and telling the others that they must leave their homeland, provoking outrage.
("Trail of Tears" ring a bell to anyone?)
You either converted to Atomology or you faced death. For some of Far Harbor, it was easy for at least one to convert since she was already immune to radiation along with a few others. How ironic, that many of the "faithful" followers CoA are in fact not immune to radiation. (clearly identifiable in a lot of places including the Nucleus).
That tells me somebody has been preaching a false doctrine just to increase their numbers. (typical of most religions in the past and now).
If it weren't for the Synth "Avery" (and DiMA's meddling), the Harbourmen probably would have already confronted the Children of Atom with lethal force at the sacrifice of many of their own lives considering the brutal lethality of the radiation within and around the Nucleus.
It was not necessary for the CoA to encroach, nor was it necessary for DiMA to interfere. If they had left the residents of Far Harbor alone without any intervention from Acadia, the people of Far Harbor would have eventually died out on their own.
But no, DiMA and the CoA had to interfere with the natural course, and left if up to us poor schmucks to clean it up for everyone there in whatever way we choose.

If you convince the CoA to commit Division, and turn Acadia over to the BoS (Or Institute which would be my preference for less violence along with less nuclear fallout), you effectively return the island back to its balance and natural course. The Harbourmen would eventually die out, but at least they can do it with their dignity intact and on their own terms.
After that and ONLY after that, could the CoA move to the island in relative peace to an uninhabited radioactive island until "division come". But even that environment won't remain the way it is forever and the CoA will eventually loose their religious bastion.
The only remaining inhabitants after the Trappers (if any) would be the ghouls and wildlife.

Eventually, the island will return to normal by itself in the course of time.
In the end, the ultimate choice of what happens is up to you.