ESP/ESM Limit vs BA2 Limit?

[Fear2288]

It was time to retire my current character, redo the mod list, and start again.

I try not to download any mods while playing a character to avoid the temptation of plugging them in on an in-progress save, so I downloaded a slew of new things - naturally, I was way over the ESM/ESP limit of 255.

After cutting loose some mods I wouldn’t miss, and using the “could be light” Vortex feature, I got myself down to 253.

Start up the game - crash.

I have Buffout 4 and looked at the crash log and it’s got lots of “anonymous name space” lines.

Tried a few times - same result.

Went looking into this whole “anonymous name space” thing and signs point to me having gone over the “BA2 file limit”.

I’ve never heard of this before.

Supposedly it’s also 255 but it’s not the same as the ESP/ESM limit.

Is that correct? Is that a thing?

So does that mean you can have 255 or less ESP/ESM files but still have more than 255 BA2 files and cannot run the game?

And using Vortex to make things light doesn’t affect this?

And since BA2 files can be used in ESLs that means even retextures and ESL mods factor into this limit?

Does this mean I have to go through and disable even more mods, specifically ones with BA2 files, to get back below 255 now? Or check a bunch of them and redownload them but in their “Loose” file format instead?

That’s inconvenient…

[Sepulchure]

BA2 archive file limits are closer to 400 than 255 btw

If you're using Buffout 4 v1.28+, it already bypasses the BA2 archive limit so that shouldn't be an issue.

Gonna have to double check your mod list.

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by Sepulchure:

BA2 archive file limits are closer to 400 than 255 btw

If you're using Buffout 4 v1.28+, it already bypasses the BA2 archive limit so that shouldn't be an issue.

Gonna have to double check your mod list.

Ran my crash logs through the scanner and they’re returning with no errors except a BA2 file limit crash.

Looked into it some more…

Apparently, there is no “set limit” like there is with ESP/ESM files. People report experiencing the crash with as low as 350 BA2 files, or as high as 700.

It doesn’t matter how large the BA2 files are either - larger BA2s do not directly contribute to experiencing the crash at a lower limit and smaller ones don’t increase the limit.

So the consensus seems to be “we don’t know what determines how many BA2 files you can have without crashing your game. It’s different for everyone.”

After looking in my Data folder, I currently have 668 BA2 files.

That seems nuts, but I guess it makes sense as I have about 700 total mods (ESM, ESP, and ESL), and when a mod is packaged in a BA2 format it’s TWO files: usually a “main.ba2” and a “textures.ba2”.

It appears that the only solutions to this are:

1. Removing more mods that contain BA2 files until I no longer crash at start up. Simple but tedious trial and error.

2. Go through all my BA2 mods and check to see if they offer “Loose File” versions and switch to using those. The downside being that they will take up more space and not load as quickly as BA2 versions.

3. Utilize a program like Cathedral Asset Optimizer or something similar to unpack the smaller BA2 files - essentially turning them into Loose Files.

Ugh…I guess there’s no escaping resolving this without tediousness

[globefish23]

Yep, the BA2 archive limit is very real.
For me it is at 436 archives.

I always do a search in my game folder before and after deploying a mod to see if it added another one.

Originally posted by Sepulchure:

If you're using Buffout 4 v1.28+, it already bypasses the BA2 archive limit

Oh, interesting!

[Fear2288]

After hours of removing mods and launching the game, I’ve discovered my limit is 510 BA2 files.

I had to disable/remove about 80 or 90 different ESM/ESP/ESL mods before I was able to successfully launch the game and start playing again.

As most - if not all - mods that use the BA2 format contain two BA2 files this translates into a limit of 255 BA2 mods for me.

I guess it’s just one more thing to be vigilant of. I had never heard of or considered this limit - I’m an experienced mod user for Skyrim, but Skyrim doesn’t support BA2 - just loose files - so over there you just need to worry about staying within the 255 ESM/ESP limit.

Unfortunately, it looks like most mod makers from FO4 only use the BA2 format (even when their mod isn’t that large to begin with) and don’t even offer a loose version.

@globefish

I don’t think that the statement that Buffout 4 gets around the limit is true. I’m using the latest version of Buffout 4 and I hit/went over this limit and experienced these issues. I’m not sure where Sepulchure is getting this idea from.

[Razör]

The price we pay for compression and performance.

[BGratz]

Originally posted by 𝔒𝔫𝔢𝔶:

The price we pay for compression and performance.

and easyer removal

[Sepulchure]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

@globefish

I don’t think that the statement that Buffout 4 gets around the limit is true. I’m using the latest version of Buffout 4 and I hit/went over this limit and experienced these issues. I’m not sure where Sepulchure is getting this idea from.

Cause I actually read and test mods that I install?

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/47359?tab=logs

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by Sepulchure:

Originally posted by Fear2288:

@globefish

I don’t think that the statement that Buffout 4 gets around the limit is true. I’m using the latest version of Buffout 4 and I hit/went over this limit and experienced these issues. I’m not sure where Sepulchure is getting this idea from.

Cause I actually read and test mods that I install?

https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/47359?tab=logs

So then why - while using the most recent version of Buffout 4 - was I crashing due to the BA2 limit?

If the most recent, up to date, version of Buffout 4 includes the ability to not be limited in the number of BA2 files you have plugged in, then why was there clearly a BA2 limit?

Also, after looking at the change logs, posts, and bug reports it seems like Buffout 4’s attempt to get around the BA2 limit has mixed results ranging from it working, to people experiencing crashes like I was, to people getting performance issues and visual glitches/anomalies.

[Sepulchure]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

So then why - while using the most recent version of Buffout 4 - was I crashing due to the BA2 limit?

If the most recent, up to date, version of Buffout 4 includes the ability to not be limited in the number of BA2 files you have plugged in, then why was there clearly a BA2 limit?

Also, after looking at the change logs, posts, and bug reports it seems like Buffout 4’s attempt to get around the BA2 limit has mixed results ranging from it working, to people experiencing crashes like I was, to people getting performance issues and visual glitches/anomalies.

I can't troubleshoot your problems for you. Did you make sure your ArchiveLimit patch is even activated?

Are you even sure it was because of the BA2 file limit? Are you sure you just didn't uninstall a problematic mod while you were spending hours uninstalling mods? I assumed you simply installed a mod collection and just hoped it work since you somehow even reached 668 ba2 files.

[Fear2288]

Originally posted by Sepulchure:

Originally posted by Fear2288:

So then why - while using the most recent version of Buffout 4 - was I crashing due to the BA2 limit?

If the most recent, up to date, version of Buffout 4 includes the ability to not be limited in the number of BA2 files you have plugged in, then why was there clearly a BA2 limit?

Also, after looking at the change logs, posts, and bug reports it seems like Buffout 4’s attempt to get around the BA2 limit has mixed results ranging from it working, to people experiencing crashes like I was, to people getting performance issues and visual glitches/anomalies.

I can't troubleshoot your problems for you. Did you make sure your ArchiveLimit patch is even activated?

Are you even sure it was because of the BA2 file limit? Are you sure you just didn't uninstall a problematic mod while you were spending hours uninstalling mods? I assumed you simply installed a mod collection and just hoped it work since you somehow even reached 668 ba2 files.

Clearly you can’t read.

Am I sure it was the BA2 file limit?

Well, let’s see…the newest version of Buffout 4 returned multiple crash logs that each - when properly scanned and translated - indicated that the issue was being over the BA2 limit.

Is the patch turned on?

Read those logs you linked to - the most recent updated version of Buffout 4 has the ArchiveLimit patch switched to ON by DEFAULT - meaning that the only way to turn it off and return to the restrictions of the BA2 limit would be if I opened the Buffout 4 .toml file and manually changed it.

And no, I didn’t download a collection. I don’t install mods (other than “safe” ones like retextures) on in-progress saves. Instead, I track ones that catch my interest on Nexus and then look at them in more detail and download the worthwhile ones when I’ve decided to start a new game.

I knew that I had tracked and grabbed more than what the ESM/ESP limit allowed, and made adjustments to get under that 255 before attempting to start a new playthrough, but then ran into this issue.

I may not have been aware of Fallout 4’s BA2 limit, but I’m not new to using mods - I’ve been heavily modding Skyrim for years and can put together stable, functional 2000+ mod lists using common sense, LO manipulation, and xEdit.

[Sepulchure]

Originally posted by Fear2288:

Clearly you can’t read.

Am I sure it was the BA2 file limit?

Well, let’s see…the newest version of Buffout 4 returned multiple crash logs that each - when properly scanned and translated - indicated that the issue was being over the BA2 limit.

Is the patch turned on?

Read those logs you linked to - the most recent updated version of Buffout 4 has the ArchiveLimit patch switched to ON by DEFAULT - meaning that the only way to turn it off and return to the restrictions of the BA2 limit would be if I opened the Buffout 4 .toml file and manually changed it.

And no, I didn’t download a collection. I don’t install mods (other than “safe” ones like retextures) on in-progress saves. Instead, I track ones that catch my interest on Nexus and then look at them in more detail and download the worthwhile ones when I’ve decided to start a new game.

I knew that I had tracked and grabbed more than what the ESM/ESP limit allowed, and made adjustments to get under that 255 before attempting to start a new playthrough, but then ran into this issue.

I may not have been aware of Fallout 4’s BA2 limit, but I’m not new to using mods - I’ve been heavily modding Skyrim for years and can put together stable, functional 2000+ mod lists using common sense, LO manipulation, and xEdit.

Buddy, you're getting sassy and defensive all of a sudden and you still didn't answer me: Did. You. Make. Sure? You still didn't say that you even checked if it's on. You're just assuming!

Listen, your modding process is whatever works for you but you add that last part about having 2000+ mods using common sense but all I'm reading is that you downloaded and altered stuff before you even got started and you claim to only download and look at worthwhile mods but I'm guessing with that number you included out-dated bloat mods like AWKCR in your list.

Seems like you're a lot more out-of-date based on what you're saying, I feel like you also don't know about esLp files too and their limits too. You should check your mod manager to see which ones are "Active" and which ones are "Light" and how many each is. You shouldn't really be even worried about the 255 esp limit especially for modern FO4/SSE.

[Chuck Jiggles]

I'd recommend using the Bethesda Archive Extractor tool from Nexus to make all the ~100mb BA2 files loose if you need to reduce the number. It is a simple tool and can extract whole folder full of BA2 files. Had the same issue yesterday with having too many BA2 files (500+) and Buffout not helping with crash on load. Now the game loads just fine and performance is still the same since I chose to extract only the small files.

[Razör]

Originally posted by BGratz:

Originally posted by 𝔒𝔫𝔢𝔶:

The price we pay for compression and performance.

and easyer removal

Indeed. Im not complaining, but we never win lmao