Dumbest Quest I've Seen Yet (spoilers)

[JustOnePepsi]

Diamond City spoilers ahead, you've been warned.

Okay, so I go into Diamond City after destroying the Institute, right? I find the gate guard Danny is injured and the local preacher is trying to help him, so I patch him up with a stimpack. He says that he saw the mayor talking to a Synth, and he discovered that the mayor is a synth and he's the one who shot him. So I go up to the mayor's office and find stupid Piper trying to kick in the door... and this is where ♥♥♥♥ gets dumb.

You have no agency concerning your choices here. You apparently HAVE to talk to Mayor Mcdonough.

I'm playing a chaeracter here who is... bad. Or at least, quick to action and doesn't like talking too much. I go with the fastest route to violence I can possibly find. So when I hear that McDonough is a synth, being Brotherhood, I'm taking a "The Brotherhood doesn't negotiate with synths" sort of perspective, so my plan is to open the door and blast the guy.

But apparently, Piper can't decide whether or not she's okay with that, because if I shoot McDonough in the face without talking to him first to turn him hostile, Geneva goes hostile... and Piper will immediately help me gun her down. She then starts talking about how they're dead and she would have preferred to see them stand try and then mid-sentence, she and the rest of the town turn hostile towards me.

All because I shot a synth (which they hate) in the face.

Honestly, this is how I would expect older Bethesda games to work, but there ARE some quests in which you can avoid talking entirely and get away with moving straight to violence. The quest where you free Nick from the vault for instance... the leader of the triggermen has a conversation that you can choose not to participate in at all. I prefer to just shoot him in the face as soon as the area loads and move on. Nick doesn't mind. Even makes a witty remark.

But of course, Bethesda apparently has trouble with consistency...

/rant

[Sentient_Toaster]

...because your first impulse is to shoot somebody based on accusations without any proof or due process at all. It doesn't matter whether those accusations might be correct -- it's still irresponsible behavior.

[Yhwach]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

...because your first impulse is to shoot somebody based on accusations without any proof or due process at all. It doesn't matter whether those accusations might be correct -- it's still irresponsible behavior.

And not every NPC is going to share the same mentality as the player character, Piper is the type that wants to do "what's right, for the most part", and she still held her morals towards the mayor.

[d2s]

I don't understand whats so great about Piper. Having her around is wierd... I shoot a bunch of ghouls - "poor ghoul bastards", I shoot super mutants - "wish it didn't come to that", then I shoot a random scammer for ending the dialogue by saying ♥♥♥♥♥♥ - nothing, just silence.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

I thought it was possible to manipulatel a speech-check on that dialogue and end up having to/getting to kill the mayor. I don't remember that dialogue very well anymore, but wasn't there a way to end up having the mayor attack you if you succeeded (or was it failed, actually?) a speech-check?

[Sentient_Toaster]

Originally posted by Field Marshal Sad Keanu:

I thought it was possible to manipulatel a speech-check on that dialogue and end up having to/getting to kill the mayor. I don't remember that dialogue very well anymore, but wasn't there a way to end up having the mayor attack you if you succeeded (or was it failed, actually?) a speech-check?

Pretty much. Something about refusing to let him just go into exile, IIRC. He goes hostile, then people are still disappointed but they don't regard you as a murderer.

[JH]

Originally posted by CVC Grouse:

I go with the fastest route to violence I can possibly find... and the rest of the town turn hostile towards me.

Cos that never happens, right?

[Mr. Pink]

It's pretty much impossible to play a bad karma character in Fallout 4. There's almost no choice in quests that allow it.

And 90% of named NPCs are set to be invulnerable anyway.

[Yhwach]

Originally posted by Mr. Pink:

It's pretty much impossible to play a bad karma character in Fallout 4. There's almost no choice in quests that allow it.

And 90% of named NPCs are set to be invulnerable anyway.

Not 90%, just ones important to certain questlines.
Although, I'm going to end up making a mod that accomplishes:
A) Having every npc non-essential when they're supposed to be, IE not during a quest they're involved in
B) Allowing the player character to kill them if they've haven't initialized any quests with them or aren't in said quest they "need" to be essential in.

[D.e.v.i.OS]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

...because your first impulse is to shoot somebody based on accusations without any proof or due process at all. It doesn't matter whether those accusations might be correct -- it's still irresponsible behavior.

OP must be a Cop

[JustOnePepsi]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

...because your first impulse is to shoot somebody based on accusations without any proof or due process at all. It doesn't matter whether those accusations might be correct -- it's still irresponsible behavior.

Uh, I blew up the Institute. I'm a Sentinel in the Brotherhood of Steel. My character is "evil" (or at least as close to evil as you can be without going on a murderous rampage). So yeah, not sure what you thought I meant when I said "I go with the fastest route to violence I can possibly find."

Originally posted by Scarecrow:

And not every NPC is going to share the same mentality as the player character, Piper is the type that wants to do "what's right, for the most part", and she still held her morals towards the mayor.

I didn't even have Piper following me. I had Macready with me. Besides that, I don't even care if Piper hated it. It makes no sense for her to go into her little end-of-confrontation speech about how they're dead and she wished it had gone differently, and then just start shooting me mid-sentence.

I also discovered that it happens if you stop speaking to Mcdonough mid-conversation and shoot him. You HAVE to make him turn hostile or it apparently still counts as murder, which just seems really dumb in the context of the game.

Originally posted by Field Marshal Sad Keanu:

I thought it was possible to manipulatel a speech-check on that dialogue and end up having to/getting to kill the mayor. I don't remember that dialogue very well anymore, but wasn't there a way to end up having the mayor attack you if you succeeded (or was it failed, actually?) a speech-check?

Yes. I know. My problem is that you apparently HAVE to go that route if you want to kill McDonough.

As an example, consider the standoff between the raiders and the woman and her son at Drumlin Diner. If you walk into that area and immediately open fire on one or the other, the opposing group doesn't care. You don't HAVE to start a dialog with either party first. You can choose a side immediately without any issue.

Given the evidence that you have against Mcdonough at that point in time, it's not unreasonable to assume that someone would just come along and kill him. Even Piper is pointing a 10mm at him when you open the door. It should be entirely possible to go all "bad cop" and just shoot him in the face without the entire town suddenly hating your guts. Especially considering the hatred that particular town has for synths to begin with.