is the T-45 Better than people think?

[Ms Peaches]

To be honest I've gotten the most use out of this power armor. It can be made pretty tough with armor upgrades and only requires steel to repair it. The higher end ones need a lot more to repair and they seem to break down after an equal amount of time.

What do you guys think?

[Bored Peon]

They could have done much better at making the different tiers differ from each other. Simply because when you wear the armors ther eis no significant differences except the protections it offers, not manuverability and accessories. Hell even the power armor UI could have been designed differently for some of the types.

The easiest way would have been to limit some of the mods to certain models. Like we know the T-45 was the bottom of the line most basic model. The T51 was the suit used the most for experimentation. The X-01 of course came from The Enclave (who existed pre-war.)

The T60, honestly not even sure where the @#$% that fits in because there hasnt been @#$% for lore found in games to determine where it came from. Which created a sort of a loophole in the lore (ugh.) That loophole could have easily been closed by either downgrading Atom Cat armor to T-51 or upgrading the lore in Fort Strong to experimenting on what would be T-60 armor.

Take the Raider set for example, it cant be modded for @#$%. The T-45 should have fell in the same category.

I suppose like someone pointed out earlier the differences between the models are kinda covered with the model A-Fs. It just could have been handled differently.

[kelmenwong]

the same upgrade u made to ur 45, can be made to x01, which the later has far better stat

[Thatdude]

Although power armor system is one of my favorite improvements in FO series, I do think it needs a overhaul, I hope I could see each power armor with its own advantages and disadvantages, at this point of game(Lvl 53), the only logical option for me is to use X01 all the time, because it's just better in every way.

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by kelmenwong:

the same upgrade u made to ur 45, can be made to x01, which the later has far better stat

Your statement just shows my point and Thatdude's point.

There is no real trade off between the different tiers of power armor. Combat armor, Leather, and metal armor all had trade offs for damage protections and for stealth ability.

Without any sort of trade offs it makes it so you only want to use the best. The best being the X-01 and it is far too easy to obtain a set at the National Guard Armory. Then that makes all the other sets completely obsolete and no point in even gathering them.

[talkingmute]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

The T60, honestly not even sure where the @#$% that fits in because there hasnt been @#$% for lore found in games to determine where it came from. Which created a sort of a loophole in the lore (ugh.) That loophole could have easily been closed by either downgrading Atom Cat armor to T-51 or upgrading the lore in Fort Strong to experimenting on what would be T-60 armor.

Maybe the T-60 is the T-51 with ceramic upgrades. I seem to remember (I say seem because it's been a long time) that there was this whole quest that allowed you to get a PA mark2 (the Enclave had a similar upgrade) back in F2. That's the only thing I can think of, I doubt that the brotherhood was touting around in T-45 (I do remember it being refered to by model name however, maybe someone remembers?) so the next logical jump would be the T-51. Which would mean that the T-60 is the T-51 mark2.

It would have been nice for the different models to have perks (perks as in somthing that sets it apart rather than abilities it grants... I guess that would be more of a quirk). Kind of like how different generations of cars have thier faults and areas that they excel depending on how they were engineered. A 1st gen Toyota Corolla (as many car fans can atest to) was vastly different than say a 7th gen.

Bottom line, part of how they operated should have had a little bit to do with why they were designed for various conflicts.

EDIT: In my car example I'd rather have the outdated gen1 rather than the gen7 :-P

[Ruin]

Originally posted by RustNick29:

T-60 is bulkier and does not allow efficient use of cover and decreases battlefield awareness.( Seriously the gauntlets take up half the fov). You get higher DR at the cost of providing a bigger target to your opponents.

As for the lore just roll with it. :)

That's the problem however, T60 should not be clearly better than T51, if T51 (as per Bethesda's own loading screens) is still the 'epitome' of Pre-War Power Armour...

If Bethesda wanted to retcon in T60 as being superior, fine, but the fact a FO4 load screen says otherwise makes this a problem...

They should be at least on par, with each having their own strengths and weaknesses, making them more situational, or personal preference (think body armour)...

Originally posted by RustNick29:

That would be stupid of the Enclave to have poured all their resources into an improvement over pre-war armor only to have it destroyed after one firefight. X-01 should be made exclusive to the 35 Court.

X-01 (Enclave Armour in NV) has 400 HP in NV, but has the best damage reduction... T45d has 1000 HP, and T51b has 2000 HP in NV...

Best resistance, while being the most fragile is very lore friendly, as no where does it state that the Enclave Power Armour was more long-lasting than other Pre-War armour, only that it provided superior protection...

Obsidian (who included developers of the original Fallout games) had already set the precedent that X-01 (Enclave Armour) is more fragile than Pre-War armour...

Originally posted by RustNick29:

I dont see where it says that T-45 was not durable. It was inefficient and durable. I mean even after 200 years we still have lots of T-45's. That could not happen if T-45 was not durable.

No one ever said that T45 was not durable (lore does suggest otherwise however), I only said that it was not as durable as T51... As for withstanding 200 years of weathering, that's very different to withstanding 200 years of combat damage...

It just means Power Armour is extremely weather resistant, nothing more...

Originally posted by RustNick29:

T-51 is not the top tier armor. Sorry to say that, but it is fact. :)

Ummm... When did I say it should be? I only said that T51, T60 and X-01 should be more a matter of choice, or more situational...

Originally posted by RustNick29:

http://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/4852/?

Power armor is supposed to be overpowered. That was the whole reason why pre-war military pooled its resources into making it. Just my opinion.

Yep, the mod halves Power Armour resistance, but still fails to address the clear 'food chain' that really should not exist, especially between T51 and T60...

I suggest you do some reading, as there's plenty of reason (and basis) for what I am saying here...

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Power_armor

[Bored Peon]

Yeah, Bethesda blew a hole in the lore:

2077: The T-60 power armor is developed as a prototype, intended to replace the T-45 model. In the final days before the Great War, the suit sees limited deployment among military peacekeeping forces within the United States.

Yet we see them all over the Commonwealth and the Atom Cats have a bunch. Then the BOS show up form a different area of the US with even more.

I guess it all boils down to the definition of "limited deployment."

Meanwhile the X-01 is not even made until about 120 years AFTER the war by the Enclave. Considering ther eis a 80 year difference between the production date and Fallout 4 date almost any reasoning can be used for why it exists in the Commonwealth.

After doign the BOS ending and their "special rewards" was a T-60 Jetpack and a T60 medpump which seemed really lame rewards because you can craft them yourself. However if they had made it so the T-60 could not have a crafted jetpack it would have had reasons to use a T-51 (for the jetpack) and make the reward something special.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Yeah, Bethesda blew a hole in the lore:

2077: The T-60 power armor is developed as a prototype, intended to replace the T-45 model. In the final days before the Great War, the suit sees limited deployment among military peacekeeping forces within the United States.

Yet we see them all over the Commonwealth and the Atom Cats have a bunch. Then the BOS show up form a different area of the US with even more.

I guess it all boils down to the definition of "limited deployment."

Yeah, agreed... I can see how T60 fits into the lore, considering T51 requires advanced materials which would likely result in shortages, meaning mass-production would no longer be viable...

A replacement series of Power Armour using simpler materials, simpler construction techniques, and perhaps even left over T45 components (hence the visual similarity) would make sense...

Otherwise, it should not have been a Pre-War series of Power Armour and instead was a suit that the East Coast Brotherhood developed after the fall of Adams Airforce Base, which was little more than an upgraded version of the T45 series... As for suits existing within the Commonwealth, have them in locations where Brotherhood expeditionary squads might have abandoned them for later recovery etc...

As for 'limited deployment', only the Commonwealth and nearby East Coast regions would qualify as 'limited deployment' (since it was not country-wide) I guess...

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Meanwhile the X-01 is not even made until about 120 years AFTER the war by the Enclave. Considering ther eis a 80 year difference between the production date and Fallout 4 date almost any reasoning can be used for why it exists in the Commonwealth.

Agreed, given the length of time that has passed after the fall of the Enclave in the West, it would be reasonable that a few suits would have made their way East (either through retreating Enclave remnants, or just traders etc)...

I agree fully that X-01 should have been limited to a couple suits, in locations that would make sense as being related to the Enclave, or somewhere that the Enclave might retreat to after their collapse in the West...

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

After doign the BOS ending and their "special rewards" was a T-60 Jetpack and a T60 medpump which seemed really lame rewards because you can craft them yourself. However if they had made it so the T-60 could not have a crafted jetpack it would have had reasons to use a T-51 (for the jetpack) and make the reward something special.

The Legendary T60 pieces you get as rewards (and purchased, based on rank) are well worth sacrificing a little damage resistance for, as you receive increased AP regen (leg and head), 10% melee damage reflected back (leg) and 10% reduced AP cost in VATs (chest)...

I definitely agree about the jetpack... As a reward it would be very useful if you've not gone with a character that has high crafting skills (or is still quite low level), otherwise, it's a very lacklustre reward...

The Legendaries are well worth it though IMO, I'm just dissapointed there are only 4 Legendary Power Armour pieces (5 if you include the absolutely pathetic Tessa's Fist - 4x normal item HP) and am hoping this is addressed through patching/DLC...

[Bored Peon]

Originally posted by Ruin:

The Legendaries are well worth it though IMO, I'm just dissapointed there are only 4 Legendary Power Armour pieces (5 if you include the absolutely pathetic Tessa's Fist - 4x normal item HP) and am hoping this is addressed through patching/DLC...

Well that would be a reason to use lower tier power armor, legendary pieces a bit more common for the lower tiers. After all most the legendary pieces of armor I get are usually the lowest of the three tiers.

[Ruin]

Originally posted by Bored Peon:

Originally posted by Ruin:

The Legendaries are well worth it though IMO, I'm just dissapointed there are only 4 Legendary Power Armour pieces (5 if you include the absolutely pathetic Tessa's Fist - 4x normal item HP) and am hoping this is addressed through patching/DLC...

Well that would be a reason to use lower tier power armor, legendary pieces a bit more common for the lower tiers. After all most the legendary pieces of armor I get are usually the lowest of the three tiers.

Yeah, I just remembered there is the Piezonucleic Torso as well, which is a T51 Legendary, but it's only marginally better than standard T51, and it's Legendary bonus is increased AP regen when exposed to radiation, making it's usefulness extremely limited, but better than nothing, if you don't have anything else I suppose...

But otherwise, yes, if there were some more Legendary pieces, covering the gamit of Power Armour series', there'd be more reason to mix-and-match components...

I've set myself (on my second play through) a house rule of not being able to upgrade Power Armour beyond Type b (eg, T45b), which represents (as I see it) little more than scraping off the rust and patching up weather damage...

In doing so, it will actually mean that finding higher marks, of 'lower' series armours, will actually be valuable, and which components to use have (so far) not been such a clear cut decision, based purely on the series... The Piezonucleic Torso came out as Mark D, meaning it was indeed better than the Mk B T60 torso's I have otherwise found/upgraded...

[Gnarl]

I haven't found any legendary power armor from random legendary enemies. Also, I'd like for lower difficulty to have cheap repair costs. I play on survival and I like that resources are important, but if I just waat to play a quick game I wouldn't mind not having to scavange for anything just to use power armor regular.

[Urizen]

Originally posted by Ruin:

Best resistance, while being the most fragile is very lore friendly

Sounds more like bad engineering. If a suit of T-51 can lost longer than a full suit of X-01 while providing marginally less protection then X-01 is inferior to T-51.Durability is more important that DR. If a suit is to be superior then it must be superior in all respects.

Originally posted by Ruin:

That's the problem however, T60 should not be clearly better than T51, if T51 (as per Bethesda's own loading screens) is still the 'epitome' of Pre-War Power Armour...

T-60f is better than T-51f(about 200 points of DR difference. Not much if you ask me). Lower models of T-60 offer protection comparable to higher models of T51.

Originally posted by Ruin:

X-01 (Enclave Armour in NV) has 400 HP in NV, but has the best damage reduction... T45d has 1000 HP, and T51b has 2000 HP in NV...

Please dont compare Power Armor statistics in New Vegas with F4.F4 treats Power armor way better than NV, where you just equip it from your pipboy(seriously?)

Originally posted by Ruin:

Ummm... When did I say it should be? I only said that T51, T60 and X-01 should be more a matter of choice, or more situational...

You didnt actually say it. You sounded like you were a die hard fan of T-51 series of PA. :)

Originally posted by Ruin:

Yep, the mod halves Power Armour resistance, but still fails to address the clear 'food chain' that really should not exist, especially between T51 and T60...

There is no compulsion to use a particular series of Power Armor. You have a choice. Also
T-45 is way easier to repair than X-01. Ease of maintenance is a factor when using Power Armor.

Personally i dont use or upgrade Power Armor until i get to level 41.(4 armorsmith and 4 science)

Originally posted by Ruin:

I suggest you do some reading, as there's plenty of reason (and basis) for what I am saying here...

Enjoy...

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/Power_armor

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/T-45_power_armor

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/T-51_power_armor_%28Fallout_4%29

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/T-60_power_armor

http://fallout.gamepedia.com/X-01_power_armor

[Nothing.]

The only thing I wish that existed for power armor is a way scrap or sell excess power armor frames. You can cause a ton of them to be created by shooting fusion cores, or stealing them from enemies wearing them. But you can also cause a pile-up of useless frames that way.

[Urizen]

Originally posted by Nothing.:

The only thing I wish that existed for power armor is a way scrap or sell excess power armor frames. You can cause a ton of them to be created by shooting fusion cores, or stealing them from enemies wearing them. But you can also cause a pile-up of useless frames that way.

You could put them on display in your settlement armory. :)

[vault-10]

i don't mind the t-45 power amour actually i used that suit for the mojority of fo4
but my favourite is t-51 because i used it a lot in fo3 and nv
and i don't like x-01 because it costs too much resoruces to repair
and finally i hate raider power amour because it's just trash.