Why I think Arthur Maxson is misunderstood.

[drakvyr]

I see how some players compare Arthur Maxson to Adolf Hitler, and I think that's ignorant and very hateful.

Arthur was born and grew up in a military life. He was raised as a soldier, and a soldier only. To me, it seems he didn't get to have a childhood because of that. All he knows in his life is the Brotherhood and their ideals, logics, and views. Becoming a leader of a large military group at the young age of 20, already bearing the appearance of a 30 year old man who's been through a lot. Now I know that his backstory may have been bullsh*t, as he was said to have 1. Solo-ed a group of raiders at 12, fought and killed a Deathclaw with a combat knife at 13, took out a Supermutant Leader at 15. Okay his backstory may have been inspired by King Arthur, but still, hard to believe a kid single-handedly killed a deathclaw with a knife.

But it still doesn't change the fact that Arthur still went through a tough life. The reason why Arthur says that every Synth, Supermutant, and Ghoul should be destroyed is because of fear, he's still a young guy who was shielded by a military for a majority of his life. He isn't aware that non-feral Ghouls don't turn feral, even after 2 dam centuries. He is not aware of one Supermutant who is friendly to humans. He is not aware that a lot of Synths aren't Institute spies. He is not aware, because he is terrified.

Even a leader, a tough soldier, can still have fears. To me, the Commonwealth's Brotherhood shouldn't have made him an Elder, probably when he becomes 27 he can be Elder. I believe having a story like that, becoming a leader at such a young age, and aging quick would overwhelm him and give him mental problems. Not to mention how Arthur tries to shoulder a lot of things at once. And don't forget that having empathy, sympathy, and a moral compass isn't common in a military group, especially a post-apocalyptic military group. I do believe Arthur can change into a more understanding person if given the time.

[Bored Peon]

Xenon The Noble a écrit :

As I understand it, there were almost no synth escapes until Liam Bennit started helping them by hacking Synth's retention's computer and putting risk of escape synths on the surface duty list. So, there's only been a handful, and this entire RailRoad organization is built around him releasing synths just because he's a delinquent?

You understood it wrong, then as usual nobody else can be bothered to tell you that you were wrong.

The current Railroad is the third incarnation of the Railroad, meaning the Institute had wiped out the main leadership twice in the past.

totto a écrit :

I'm so excited about the Fallout TV series and what it does with the synths and the Institute.
If the series has completely ignored the synths and the Institute, THEN Bethesda's Fallout 4 has to go in the trash, and I urgently want a remake-reboot from another developer.
One (I wish Bend Studio) who can tell the THEMES apart: Synth (a Gothic genre theme) and Android (a Sci-Fi genre theme).

The series takes place on the West Coast like 5 or 9 years after Fallout 4.
I do not expect to get much more than maybe a mention of the Institute.
As for the rest....yeah not going to happen.

[The Cure]

Bored Peon a écrit :

Xenon The Noble a écrit :

As I understand it, there were almost no synth escapes until Liam Bennit started helping them by hacking Synth's retention's computer and putting risk of escape synths on the surface duty list. So, there's only been a handful, and this entire RailRoad organization is built around him releasing synths just because he's a delinquent?

You understood it wrong, then as usual nobody else can be bothered to tell you that you were wrong.

The current Railroad is the third incarnation of the Railroad, meaning the Institute had wiped out the main leadership twice in the past.

totto a écrit :

I'm so excited about the Fallout TV series and what it does with the synths and the Institute.
If the series has completely ignored the synths and the Institute, THEN Bethesda's Fallout 4 has to go in the trash, and I urgently want a remake-reboot from another developer.
One (I wish Bend Studio) who can tell the THEMES apart: Synth (a Gothic genre theme) and Android (a Sci-Fi genre theme).

The series takes place on the West Coast like 5 or 9 years after Fallout 4.
I do not expect to get much more than maybe a mention of the Institute.
As for the rest....yeah not going to happen.

This.

And I doubt the Institute is even mentioned in the show. Plus the West Coast BoS chapter seems to have been rebuilt to some degree in the TV series (above ground bases and no longer in hiding), meaning they survived their near extinction we saw in New Vegas.

The Institute were one and done generic villains for 4 with about three mentions in Fallout 3 before Emil fleshed them out for the successive title. At most you'll probably get a few synth/Institute member Easter Eggs in Fallout 5.

[Dryden]

totto a écrit :

Dryden a écrit :

Can the institute make synths without the synth component?

wiki/Android_component

I'm so excited about the Fallout TV series and what it does with the synths and the Institute.
If the series has completely ignored the synths and the Institute, THEN Bethesda's Fallout 4 has to go in the trash, and I urgently want a remake-reboot from another developer.
One (I wish Bend Studio) who can tell the THEMES apart: Synth (a Gothic genre theme) and Android (a Sci-Fi genre theme).

I had honestly forgotten about Fallout 3, but the objects have different models and names in both games. F3 takes place in 2277 and F4 2287, so it should probably be assumed that the android_component was retconned to be a synth component.

As for that Amazon tv show. Nothing they make is canon until it appears in a mainline fallout game.

[Bored Peon]

Dryden a écrit :

As for that Amazon tv show. Nothing they make is canon until it appears in a mainline fallout game.

Unless Bethesda says it is canon.
https://www.cbr.com/fallout-tv-adaptation-canon/#:~:text=Bethesda%20director%20Todd%20Howard%20confirms,video%20game%20franchise's%20overarching%20narrative.
Last I knew Todd Howard worked for Bethesda.

[DouglasGrave]

Xenon The Noble a écrit :

Dryden a écrit :

It all comes down to whether or not the synths are just really advanced programs utilising the processing power of a biological brain to create human thought processes or if the component is just there as a control device in what is essentially a human.

Their DNA has been heavily modified with the FEV. Not technically human as they can't interbreed with humans. Nor can they even breed with each other, so not "life"

They can physically breed with humans, but the jury is out on whether it can produce anything, though the implied static state of their bodies should likely rule out pregnancy, and with it their own reproduction. Male synth to female natural human might possibly work.

Dryden a écrit :

Xenon The Noble a écrit :

Their DNA has been heavily modified with the FEV. Not technically human as they can't interbreed with humans. Nor can they even breed with each other, so not "life"

There’s also how that Warwick synth apparently doesn’t need to sleep. I also vaguely remember that gen 3 synths don’t age or need to eat or drink.

In any event, my comment was more in terms of ChatGPT running on mostly biological hardware versus a control chip at the centre of the brain.

There isn’t any information in Fallout 4 regarding what the synth component is. Which is the root of the problem for all of these discussions.

Can the institute make synths without the synth component?

There are plenty of synths that don't drop one, but as it might be nothing more than a widget to show us when the narrative needs synth status confirmed, it's not confirmation. The presence of a component on death confirms a synth, while its absence is a non-answer.

That said, I don't think its absence gives us much idea of a synth's mentality, either. They could still be either just a wetware AI program or a human with built-in restrictions, as all not having the component would mean is that those restrictions would be written in the flesh, rather than on a separate device.

Though I guess that would represent a difference between synths and natural humans.

[DouglasGrave]

The Cure a écrit :

And I doubt the Institute is even mentioned in the show. Plus the West Coast BoS chapter seems to have been rebuilt to some degree in the TV series (above ground bases and no longer in hiding), meaning they survived their near extinction we saw in New Vegas.

Factually, I think we can say that we have yet to see any sign of the Institute in previews or associated material. If they're intending to include it, they haven't shown clues to it yet.

The Cure a écrit :

The Institute were one and done generic villains for 4 with about three mentions in Fallout 3 before Emil fleshed them out for the successive title. At most you'll probably get a few synth/Institute member Easter Eggs in Fallout 5.

Their weakness in Fallout 4 is that they weren't possessed of any active and compelling goal, including villainy. We fudge our way through their quests while a reactor is built, then fight the Brotherhood and Railroad, but the conflict is over synths existing, rather than the Institute aiming to do anything as villains do in other games. The Master wanted to mutate humans, the Enclave to cleanse the surface, the Legion to conquer; the Institute has no such aspirations, and the most compelling conflicts in their story are resolved before we meet them directly.

Not that they were fully fleshed out for Fallout 4 anyway, given the number of gaps in their backstory that can only be bridged partially.

[Jerry]

The Cure a écrit :

This.

And I doubt the Institute is even mentioned in the show. Plus the West Coast BoS chapter seems to have been rebuilt to some degree in the TV series (above ground bases and no longer in hiding), meaning they survived their near extinction we saw in New Vegas.

The Institute were one and done generic villains for 4 with about three mentions in Fallout 3 before Emil fleshed them out for the successive title. At most you'll probably get a few synth/Institute member Easter Eggs in Fallout 5.

Yea I agree the Institute won't even be a thing in the series. They are a one and done like you say. Nolans brother and Beth have moved on from those baddies 8 years ago. The show will be about a random vault dweller and the bos, like all Bethesda fallouts are.

[Dryden]

Bored Peon a écrit :

Dryden a écrit :

As for that Amazon tv show. Nothing they make is canon until it appears in a mainline fallout game.

Unless Bethesda says it is canon.
https://www.cbr.com/fallout-tv-adaptation-canon/#:~:text=Bethesda%20director%20Todd%20Howard%20confirms,video%20game%20franchise's%20overarching%20narrative.
Last I knew Todd Howard worked for Bethesda.

I’m aware that Todd is involved, but nothing Amazon makes is canon until it’s in a mainline game. You can certainly view it as being canon if you want to.

[The Cure]

Dryden a écrit :

Bored Peon a écrit :

Unless Bethesda says it is canon.
https://www.cbr.com/fallout-tv-adaptation-canon/#:~:text=Bethesda%20director%20Todd%20Howard%20confirms,video%20game%20franchise's%20overarching%20narrative.
Last I knew Todd Howard worked for Bethesda.

I’m aware that Todd is involved, but nothing Amazon makes is canon until it’s in a mainline game. You can certainly view it as being canon if you want to.

Nope, Todd Howard has said in multiple interviews that the show will be canon, for better or worse. And part of me thinks for worse because it's Amazon and they've ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up more IPs than Disney, but a slight glint of optimism since it's a Nolan.

Jerry a écrit :

The Cure a écrit :

This.

And I doubt the Institute is even mentioned in the show. Plus the West Coast BoS chapter seems to have been rebuilt to some degree in the TV series (above ground bases and no longer in hiding), meaning they survived their near extinction we saw in New Vegas.

The Institute were one and done generic villains for 4 with about three mentions in Fallout 3 before Emil fleshed them out for the successive title. At most you'll probably get a few synth/Institute member Easter Eggs in Fallout 5.

Yea I agree the Institute won't even be a thing in the series. They are a one and done like you say. Nolans brother and Beth have moved on from those baddies 8 years ago. The show will be about a random vault dweller and the bos, like all Bethesda fallouts are.

Pretty much. I always LOL at the Institute simps that think they are going to be a thing after 4. I guess they'll have to shill for the next generic villain Beth comes up with in Fallout 5. Because it will never be the BoS, since Bethesda considers them an integral part of Fallout nostalgia, the same with the Vault intro and ham-fisting Super Mutants into every Beth Fallout game.

[DouglasGrave]

The Cure a écrit :

Pretty much. I always LOL at the Institute simps that think they are going to be a thing after 4. I guess they'll have to shill for the next generic villain Beth comes up with in Fallout 5. Because it will never be the BoS, since Bethesda considers them an integral part of Fallout nostalgia, the same with the Vault intro and ham-fisting Super Mutants into every Beth Fallout game.

They'd have to substantially change the Institute if they kept using them, much like how they've taken the Brotherhood far from its roots, and their story is generally sorted out in Fallout 4, not (as I noted before) that it really needed to be since they weren't actually doing much of anything. The Institute's activities never really merited enough to drive the story on their own.

I will be more disappointed if I don't see the Children of Atom (them being possibly my favourite faction), but I doubt they'd do them justice in a series. Still, there is always hope.

[Jerry]

The Cure a écrit :

Pretty much. I always LOL at the Institute simps that think they are going to be a thing after 4. I guess they'll have to shill for the next generic villain Beth comes up with in Fallout 5. Because it will never be the BoS, since Bethesda considers them an integral part of Fallout nostalgia, the same with the Vault intro and ham-fisting Super Mutants into every Beth Fallout game.

Yea Beth has two modes either nostalgia when it is not their original IP or subverted expectations. Bethesda always keeps the former nostalgia with Fallout like you say. The bos will exist, you will come out of a vault and Supers will always find a way into the game

The villains are either rehashed previous factions or new 'one and done' factions like the institute.

[The Cure]

Jerry a écrit :

The Cure a écrit :

Pretty much. I always LOL at the Institute simps that think they are going to be a thing after 4. I guess they'll have to shill for the next generic villain Beth comes up with in Fallout 5. Because it will never be the BoS, since Bethesda considers them an integral part of Fallout nostalgia, the same with the Vault intro and ham-fisting Super Mutants into every Beth Fallout game.

Yea Beth has two modes either nostalgia when it is not their original IP or subverted expectations. Bethesda always keeps the former nostalgia with Fallout like you say. The bos will exist, you will come out of a vault and Supers will always find a way into the game

The villains are either rehashed previous factions or new 'one and done' factions like the institute.

Damn, now the more I think about the show, the more I have doubts. Westworld was just Jurassic Park before Jurassic Park, with Michael Crichton and Yul doing his thing before DNA was widely known about. Jon Nolan turned the HBO series into some existential BS for three seasons and noped out.

I hope the Fallout show is more than just Walton Goggins in a pink painted Red Skull mask, guiding our vault heroine through the numbers of a BoS supported plot-line. I'm wondering if the NCR is even going to be shown, since they were not in the first trailer.

[hatta]

The Cure a écrit :

And I doubt the Institute is even mentioned in the show. Plus the West Coast BoS chapter seems to have been rebuilt to some degree in the TV series (above ground bases and no longer in hiding), meaning they survived their near extinction we saw in New Vegas.

The Institute were one and done generic villains for 4 with about three mentions in Fallout 3 before Emil fleshed them out for the successive title. At most you'll probably get a few synth/Institute member Easter Eggs in Fallout 5.

that is illegal.

that is illegal.
As I said: If the TV series ignores the institute, then Bethesda has just done garbage and it needs a remake reboot from another developer. Because this just proves that Bethesda is incompetent.

Fallout 5 has to address the Institute again because it is fundamental:
bickering
Parasitism
1 Everything a professor wants to tell with his vital signs, only on OnlyFans, for example.
2 Everything a professor wants to tell in order to serve the infrastructure (science, progress, general knowledge, ...), only as a text-to-speech video audio book with editing.

The last two South Park episodes have discussed the institute:

South Park Joining the Panderverse 2023
The institute is bombarded with the cataput.

South Park Not Suitable For Children 2023
The institute will not be digitized. The professors are not on OnlyFans.
But the school is being digitized. (see currently: Sweden)
And the teacher is on OnlyFans (see current: Teachers who have sex with underage students as an epidemic)

[PeaceMaker]

I have no interest in the tv series. Every tv series of a franchise I once loved is 99% of the time ruined today because the writers can't put themselves into another world and stay there.

[hatta]

DouglasGrave a écrit :

I will be more disappointed if I don't see the Children of Atom (them being possibly my favourite faction), but I doubt they'd do them justice in a series. Still, there is always hope.

Children of Atom
wiki/Cabot_family
This will be the main topic, because this is what everyone understood and liked,
who hate FALLOUT.
I have THQ Nordic vibes right now, if THQ Nordic do the remake or Fallout5 then everything will be ignored and those 2 things in Fallout4 will be promoted to the main story.