Gunners

[Xenon The Noble]

What is the relationship between the BOS and Gunners? The BOS has a quest - kill some scientists. The Gunners are for hire. Why doesn't the BOS hire the gunners to wipe out the RailRoad, and kill scientists?
Why doesn't the SS hire the gunners to defend SS settlements? If SS has been water farming (the best in game cheat ever, I guess) SS should be able to hire gunners to defend settlements.

[ᕮᗪᗯᗩ®ᗪ🍀]

Q1: Gunners try to steal vertibirds from BOS in a few random encounters, so the Gunners are like Raiders to them.
Q2: It's not a game mechanic.
Q3: It's not a game mechanic.

And water farming is so 2287. Drug farming is better, if you have the Nuka World dlc. Those dispensers actually work without power. No hostile Raider group has stolen my drugs during raids. They steal your water, food and junk from the workbench, but they never touch the drug dispensers. Can't even destroy them, like a waterpump.
And drugs have less weight but higher value.

[asarokk]

Even though the two factions share many similarities at first glance, like both being a militarized organization with a chain of command and access to all sorts of equipment, the Brotherhood of Steel doesn't wish to affiliate themselves with Gunners.
- I don't think the Brotherhood thinks highly of the Gunners and the Gunners lack ambitions, They don't don't concern themselves with anything other than the "here and now" and profits.

While the Gunners are capable and trained fighters, they don't posses the same discipline or duty to follow through with their mission as members of the Brotherhood. In fact, the Gunner's organization is a fractured one and they have been prone to become disorganized, due to lack of leadership skills and chem use. You could say the Gunners are nothing more than glorified raiders. Yes, they accept various jobs in exchange for payment, but they're also just as likely to attack you for personal gain.
- Since they're motivated by payment, that means they're not loyal to their contract either, as their services will always go to the highest bidder.

The Gunners arsenal pales in comparison to that of the Brotherhood. After all, the Brotherhood has better Power Armor, more Vertibirds at their disposal, the Prydwen and Optimus Prime, just to name a few. The Brotherhood also quite possibly outnumbers the Gunners.
- The Gunners also appear to only have fighters and the occasional pilot, while the Brotherhood has more diverse infrastructure and specialized purposes - like that of scribes. They also have doctors, technicians, engineers, etc.
- Bottom-line is, the Gunners wouldn't stand a chance against the Brotherhood's armaments. Why would the Brotherhood need the Gunners for jobs the Brotherhood is more than capable of doing.

The Brotherhood isn't overly concerned with the Railroad even though the Railroad considers both the Brotherhood and the Institute, to be their enemies. Since the Railroad is inconsequential, why waste resources on them when the Institute represents the most pressing issue.
- Seeing as the Brotherhood needs to weaponize a giant construct like Optimus Prime with unparalleled destructive force, how would the Gunners ever hope to destroy the Institute?

As to why the Sole Survivor doesn't hire the Gunners to defend his/her settlements. You'd need considerable amount of resources as payment for their services. Using their services also doesn't guarantee either that they'll be loyal to the contract, since their services goes to the highest bidder, nor that your settles would be safe from the Gunners.

After the Quincy Massacre, I doubt most settlers would feel safe with Gunners 'protecting' them.

[Castyles]

Both share a military origins but that's about it.

Gunners are mercs. Brotherhood are zealots.

[fluxtorrent]

They are both jumped up raider factions, of course they wotn get along. Also LOL can you imagine Maxson admitting he needs help and hiring people?

[Xenon The Noble]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

They are both jumped up raider factions, of course they wotn get along. Also LOL can you imagine Maxson admitting he needs help and hiring people?

At some point in the game you go into Vault 75 and there's a battle going between Gunners and BOS. Not sure what it's about. I don't think eugenics is technology the BOS cares about. Just kicking in the door and killing all the gunners like SS does, I guess.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by asarokk:

- Bottom-line is, the Gunners wouldn't stand a chance against the Brotherhood's armaments. Why would the Brotherhood need the Gunners for jobs the Brotherhood is more than capable of doing.

Pretty much this; the Brotherhood has its own forces to do the job, who it can trust more, pay less, and who are generally better equipped.

I do feel it's a missed opportunity that you can't do even the slightest thing to hire the supposed mercenaries yourself (much like the Talon Company from Fallout 3). It would even be something if you could hire one as a companion and have the other Gunners not immediately attack you on sight. The random encounter with Dreth and her bodyguards is about the only time we see them obviously serving as mercenaries.

[Zes]

Originally posted by Xenon The Noble:

Why doesn't the SS hire the gunners to defend SS settlements? If SS has been water farming (the best in game cheat ever, I guess) SS should be able to hire gunners to defend

very clever.. indeed. well, that would have changed the game completely.. and money got a different value.

why do we have to run from settlement to settlement.. just hire gunners ;) why spend money on buying ammo.. hire gunners loL

why bother with common rubbles, hire gunners as bodyguards.. what do we need next? a limo..

[Stardustfire]

the Problem is like Bugthesda Designs Mercs, its the same in every FO since 3, you have one higher Tech Faction that is labeld as Mercs, but in the End they are only better Organized and Equiped Raiders, when you look how the behave.
The only Merclike mercs i seen in a newer (After 2) FO Game are Reilys Rangers, and they are more Scouts than fullfledged allround Mercs.

[bombastinator]

I think most view the gunners as just the biggest raider gang. Also compared to the other factions they’re far and away the weakest group. The BOS has power armor, the railroad has agents, and the minutemen have fricken artillery. The gunners just have lasers and other small arms, It’s not even close.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by bombastinator:

I think most view the gunners as just the biggest raider gang. Also compared to the other factions they’re far and away the weakest group. The BOS has power armor, the railroad has agents, and the minutemen have fricken artillery. The gunners just have lasers and other small arms, It’s not even close.

I think the Gunners have more people than the Brotherhood, which is enough to make them distinct as a mercenary-raider outfit if there was only a bit more to their story.

I'd put the Gunners above the Railroad in terms of strength because they've got plenty of people out there and their weapons are still surprisingly good. They don't have gauss rifles, but they do have missile launchers and fat man launchers now and then, along with occasional robotic support, limited power armour, widespread combat armour, and sometimes plasma weapons. The Railroad has to concentrate its forces to manage a battle like the one at Bunker Hill and recruit internal synth support to face the Institute in their final mission, while the Gunners can maintain ongoing control of locations spread across the Commonwealth with armed force.

It's the backstory that lets them down, because their military style is like a watered-down version of the Brotherhood, and having greater numbers isn't enough to sell them as interesting. I like the Rust Devils more as a powerful raider gang.

[TemplarGR]

You don't need the gunners to protect your settlements. Just kill all gunners, raid their bases in the GNN building and Quincy, loot their stuff and equip your settlers with those. I just love, LOVE it when gunners attack my settlements, tons of combat armor and quality weaponry to give to my settlers!

[TemplarGR]

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

They are both jumped up raider factions, of course they wotn get along. Also LOL can you imagine Maxson admitting he needs help and hiring people?

This misinformation and hatred of the BOS needs to stop at some point, it is not kewl anymore.... The BOS are nothing like raiders. And they protect all civilians. They don't kill them.

[DouglasGrave]

Originally posted by TemplarGR:

Originally posted by fluxtorrent:

They are both jumped up raider factions, of course they wotn get along. Also LOL can you imagine Maxson admitting he needs help and hiring people?

This misinformation and hatred of the BOS needs to stop at some point, it is not kewl anymore.... The BOS are nothing like raiders. And they protect all civilians. They don't kill them.

The Brotherhood are big picture crusaders, not local defenders like the Minutemen. They certainly will kill civilians who have technology they don't like (the Institute being a prime example), and they don't show up to defend places that get directly attacked.

Take a look at the Battle of Bunker Hill. The Institute is there to reclaim its four synths, while the Railroad is there to stop them. Is the Brotherhood turning up to defend the settlers of Bunker Hill from the conflict? Not one bit. They turned up to join in and destroy those four synths, and Maxson is openly unhappy if you don't. The regular inhabitants of Bunker Hill cowering in fear of their lives don't even warrant a mention.

[Xenon The Noble]

Lets say you kill some folks who are para-military... you know, the usual rift-raft military groups; Gunners, BOS, Minute Men, and you equip your settlers with the looted arms and armor. Rather than +1 rags they get combat armor and funny triangle hats, instead of pipe guns they get Gauss rifles, laser and plasma weapons.
That doesn't raise the defense of the settlement one bit, does it? It's all how many manned piles of wood and how many turrets.

[Xenon The Noble]

I really don't see that scientist are that tough to kill that they require the BOS' T-60 power armor. Scientist are in lab coats for crying out loud! (e.g. Higgs and Loken) A gunner with some combat armor and a laser rifle ought to do just fine murdering scientists in lab coats.
Seems like a cheap way to go! Just put a bounty on their heads! Say 100 caps for each head with more than 1.5 kg of brain in them are presumed scientists and the gunner gets paid.
Heck, one of my ancestors, Chief Hole in the Day the Younger, had six heads in a bag, and he wasn't even getting paid!

It will vastly improve the commonwealth by removing these undesirables. Pretty soon, there will be no scientist problem.